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Methanol , Ethanol and IPA - The Large Extractors Best Friends

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Spiceman

Spiceman

The Spicemeister
The use of alcohols to form concentrates of our favorite plant allies to aid in large scale extractions has seriously been overlooked. Therefore I would like to bring again to everyones attention the possibility of making concentrated cakes of our fav pink powder via alcohol soaks followed by evaporation (or recycling of the alcohol via distillation) to yeild a thick hard cake of tryptamine goodness.

This can then be dissolved in heavily basic h20 and pulled with solvent (note : here the stirring can be rough but it will eventually thin out on its own).... the solvent collected and deffated by stirring on an equal portion of acidic water for several minutes. The solvent is then discarded (or recycled) and the water re-basified and fresh solvent added to pull 100% fat free , non water soluble contaminent free and any other bullshit free spice.

The beauty of this technique is that even 5 pounds could be completely extracted in a SINGLE gallon pickle jar . Imagine snowing over an ounce of dmt from one freeze precipitation. This solution is so alkaloid rich that upon addition of naptha (a crappy but common solvent) is added it will immediately cloud ... allowing you to add solvent and stir until it goes clear allowing you to JUDGE EXACTLY HOW MUCH SOLVENT YOU NEED!

No more fifty quart jar 3+ pd extractions..... soak in alcohol... extract that cake... its 100% easier and its just so damned exciting to stick a full quart of solvent in the freezer and watch it snow 15 - 20 grams in just an hour !

Someone should write this up with specified amounts. Peace and Godspeed!
 
Spiceman said:
The use of alcohols to form concentrates of our favorite plant allies to aid in large scale extractions has seriously been overlooked. Therefore I would like to bring again to everyones attention the possibility of making concentrated cakes of our fav pink powder via alcohol soaks followed by evaporation (or recycling of the alcohol via distillation) to yeild a thick hard cake of tryptamine goodness.

This can then be dissolved in heavily basic h20 and pulled with solvent (note : here the stirring can be rough but it will eventually thin out on its own).... the solvent collected and deffated by stirring on an equal portion of acidic water for several minutes. The solvent is then discarded (or recycled) and the water re-basified and fresh solvent added to pull 100% fat free , non water soluble contaminent free and any other bullshit free spice.

The beauty of this technique is that even 5 pounds could be completely extracted in a SINGLE gallon pickle jar . Imagine snowing over an ounce of dmt from one freeze precipitation. This solution is so alkaloid rich that upon addition of naptha (a crappy but common solvent) is added it will immediately cloud ... allowing you to add solvent and stir until it goes clear allowing you to JUDGE EXACTLY HOW MUCH SOLVENT YOU NEED!

No more fifty quart jar 3+ pd extractions..... soak in alcohol... extract that cake... its 100% easier and its just so damned exciting to stick a full quart of solvent in the freezer and watch it snow 15 - 20 grams in just an hour !

Someone should write this up with specified amounts. Peace and Godspeed!
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What is the advantage of using alcohols instead of water (apart from their faster evaporation rate)?

what you describe with alcohols can be done with water and evaporated over low heat to leave a concentrate ~solid~ mass of plant extract. It just takes some extra time. Plus, alcohols will pick up more oils while water dissolves most goodies better.

On top of that, solvents like meOH, etOH, and IPA are really not readily available in many of the countries where SWIM has lived. It appears that in the States one can go to the grocery store and just buy of a couple of litres of methanol or IPA. But in UK for instance, even finding a decent naphtha is a pain in the ass!
 
nadir said:
oh..
what about acetone ? will it work in the same way?
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Not quite, even though SWIM hasn't tried it personally.

But Noman did it once with acetone, evapped and performed A/B on the residue to yield nothing. As a rule-of-thumb, acetone dissolves alkaloid salts more poorly than alcohols. Generally, salts are soluble more in water, then follows methanol, then ethanol, then IPA and finally acetone.
 
acetone would work in a similar manner if there was even a little water present and the alkaloids freebased... say the acetone solution was made basic .. allowed to soak and then removed and evapped...

as far as the advantages , the main one is yes.. speedy evap time. On a 3 kilo extraction you'd be waiting a week on water, when the alcohol can be evapped in a few hours. Essentially water will work...

Regardless of where you are im sure you can get basic alcohols.. i mean even 70% ipa will work .. you just evap until the alcohol smell is no longer present and basify the sludge. Methanol can be obtained in 99.99 percent amounts by going to any local auto parts store and buying some gas line antifreeze. aka* HEET. I know you can still buy a bottle of whiskey somewhere in the UK, if not, then I think i'd be moving. No offense.

Its easy as hell to make an alcohol distillation apparatus to make the alcohols yourself cheaply, or recycle store bought ones.. even improving on the efficiency of this method further.

Aside from faster evap times being the only benefit over water, one soak is pretty much all that is required. Water can take several rinses to clear the bark of the desired alkaloids. One soak in say some basic methanol will pull in the high 90% of alk's. Swim has per normal water extracted bark that was previously extracted one time with methanol , and the yeild was not worth the work.

One short hour or two long steep in basic alcohol will pull essentially all thats worth getting. Two or three hours evap time and you can turn 20 pds of mhrb into a 1.5 pd cake of concentrate that can then be fully extracted in one jar (or further refining *see next post*). Peace and Godspeed!

This is just a fast methd of working up any size batch of bark with limited space and or materials.
 
Also, I forgot to mention just how much that this method conserves materials.... Less acid is used because you only have to acidify a small amount of water. Less base is used becasue instead of basifying gallons (in large extractions) of water , you are only making basic enough water to dissolve the cake ( around 7-10 original weight, can be refined further by making the alcohol basic and evapping to make the cake, digesting the cake with acetone.. evap the acetone.. you are left with just 1-2 percent of the original weight.

Lets say you start with 20 pds of bark.. use this method make a cake that weighs 1.5 pds. Cake is digested with acetone to leave behind a residue that weighs around 100 -150 grams. This is extracted per normal. So now that 20 pounds of bark is easily extracted in a half gallon jar. You only need enough lye or other base to basify that small amount of material. Lastly its very conservative on solvent because you can literally SEE when you've added enough! (If using naptha). The price of this type of extraction is usually CHEAPER even though you've added an extra ingredient (the alcohol) \based on the conservation of the other materials.
 
Swim found that they are extremely beneficial after the methanol pulls.. using basic methanol to make the cake .. then digesting that with acetone to leave a really strong concentrate. Never tried the reverse order swim say's.
 
ok makes more sense i guess - clarify that word basic prefixing methanol in ur last post - it could refer to ph.
 
Actually in that instance it does reffer to ph. The Methanol is made heavily basic , this works exceptionally well with Koh or Naoh, that way the alkaloids in the cae are freebased and there are two reasons for this . 1 is when the cake is made it can be digested with acetone and the spice will come out in the acetone as opposed to a salt in which it would not be soluble, and 2. Because Making the solution basic tends to more rapidly break down the plant material than acidic conditions do, taking less time to empty the material of alkaloids. Godspeed
 
I had never thought of this! How efficient is it, and how many alcohol pulls are needed to ensure that you get all the goods out of the MHRB?

Also, would something like this work?

1. Alcohol extraction (which is best?)
2. Acidify cake with vinegar or something (is this helpful using an alcohol extract as it is with BLAB?)
3. Basify
4. Pull with naphtha several times
5. Wash naphtha with acid water several times
6. Basify acid water
7. Pull with naphtha several times
8. Freeze precip.

Hmmm... might have to try a scaled up extraction if this really is effective...
 
biohazard72 said:
I had never thought of this! How efficient is it, and how many alcohol pulls are needed to ensure that you get all the goods out of the MHRB?

Also, would something like this work?

1. Alcohol extraction (which is best?)
2. Acidify cake with vinegar or something (is this helpful using an alcohol extract as it is with BLAB?)
3. Basify
4. Pull with naphtha several times
5. Wash naphtha with acid water several times
6. Basify acid water
7. Pull with naphtha several times
8. Freeze precip.

Hmmm... might have to try a scaled up extraction if this really is effective...
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Swim preffers methanol... you can go about it in that order but its less "solvent efficient" once the solvent filled with goodies is stirred onto the acidic water it is discarded or recycled... no need for multiple pulls here on that solution for deffatting because all the fats and oils were left in the first discarded solvent.

Yes , this works.....

1 couple hour soak in hot methanol gets basically all the goodies.... it leaves only very small amount behind. You could add a second rinse, it couldn't hurt except to lengthen evap time and consume more alcohol. Godspeed!
 
I like this idea allot.
It reminds me of a very crude extract I did years ago with everclear. I never basified it or used a solvent. I simply soaked in 99% pure ethanol, filtered, and was left with a deep dark purple liquid. I evaped this and was left with a shiny blackish purple residue. I ground it up and put it in gel caps and combined that with some Rue. Very potent but, oh the nausea!



I like the bulk possibilities here.

So help me out here,

Anyone know what a good soak time would be?
Would it be beneficial to warm the soak and
Whats a good ratio IPA to bark, or do you just go by thickness/consitency?
Once the soak is finnished you just filter the bark powder out with a T-shirt?

If IPA is that efficient with just one soak this is a great tek IMHO. I have no chem background and two left thumbs, so extractions can be a little tougher for me some times. Getting the supplies is simple. Eliminating all the jars and a bulk of the organic matter is very appealing.
 
id like to see them side by side -
basic methanol soaks dried and acetone pulled - (but i think that wont be selective enough)
vs
acidic methanol soaks dried - washed with acetone - made basic then pulled with acetone.
 
im sure the second method you mentioned would be better phlux.. but if one was going to proceed on with per normal extraction of that residue... it wouldn't be needed to go through the extra step. If one was however to stop the extraction process there then yes... that method would be more fitting.. Peace!
 
this could also work for long term storage - bark does go bad slowly - if fumaric acid is used as the starting acid in the soak then evapped i would imagine the mhrb puck would last forever(or at least until needed) and would take up way less space in the majical plant cupboard.
 
Yes indeed Phlux, EXCELLENT implications here for long term storage!

Peace and Godspeed!
 
Phlux- said:
this could also work for long term storage - bark does go bad slowly - if fumaric acid is used as the starting acid in the soak then evapped i would imagine the mhrb puck would last forever(or at least until needed) and would take up way less space in the majical plant cupboard.
Click to expand...

the mhrb could even be stored/preserved in the alcohol itself, in a closed container, and then filtered/evapped when one is ready for extraction.

would it be preserved in methanol or IPA, just as it is with ethanol?
 
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