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Miner's Tobacco Aya Substitute?

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Chimp Z

Chimp Z

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Had eaten some leaves of freshly harvested Nicotiana Glauca yesterday and felt actually quite noticeable effects. Felt more blurry and subtly intoxicated than with peganum harmala.
Felt a little similar to peganum but i would like to know if this plant has any history in divination practices or if it could potentially be the MAO-Inhibitor in an Aya-type brew with some phalaris stenoptera or a good Acacia.
Might conduct some trial tests since the activity of whatever alkaloids are in N. Glauca surprised me with its seemingly potent constituents but were not nauseating, just had "drunk eyes" but body felt calm and almost similar the body feeling of peganum harmala.
 
PLEASE BE CAREFUL!

Nicotine poisoning can be lethal.


US Center for Disease Control said:
Human data: The fatal human dose [of nicotine] has been estimated to be about 50 to 60 mg [Lazutka et al. 1969]. [Note: An oral dose of 50 to 60 mg/kg is equivalent to a 70-kg worker being exposed to about 30 to 40 mg/m3 for 30 minutes, assuming a breathing rate of 50 liters per minute and 100% absorption.]
Click to expand...
CDC - Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health Concentrations (IDLH): Nicotine - NIOSH Publications and Products


Also, here's an article from the Journal of Toxicology, "Acute Poisoning from the Ingestion of Nicotiana glauca" that details a case study of the plant you mentioned. Unfortunately I do not have access to the full text.

~wap~
 
wearepeople said:
PLEASE BE CAREFUL!

Nicotine poisoning can be lethal.


US Center for Disease Control said:
Human data: The fatal human dose [of nicotine] has been estimated to be about 50 to 60 mg [Lazutka et al. 1969]. [Note: An oral dose of 50 to 60 mg/kg is equivalent to a 70-kg worker being exposed to about 30 to 40 mg/m3 for 30 minutes, assuming a breathing rate of 50 liters per minute and 100% absorption.]
Click to expand...
CDC - Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health Concentrations (IDLH): Nicotine - NIOSH Publications and Products


Also, here's an article from the Journal of Toxicology, "Acute Poisoning from the Ingestion of Nicotiana glauca" that details a case study of the plant you mentioned. Unfortunately I do not have access to the full text.

~wap~
Click to expand...
Everything wap said.

Acute respiratory failure due to Nicotiana glauca ingestion
 
As with all poisons/drugs the dosage is key. Anabasine is less toxic thn nicotine IIRC.The respiratory failure case study doesn't state the amount of leaf that the woman ate which would have been a very interesting and useful piece of infomation. I have smoked N. glauca in the past and enjoyed it. I also smoked cigarettes for 24 years. :surprised Never ate either one though.

Tangentially related tidbit: When I was in Ecuador the Quichua shamans required everyone in our group to smoke cigarettes throughout our ayahuasca ceremonies. I don't recall if they ever explained why they did it that way, but it was evidently part of their normal practice. Nicotine does have some MAOI activity if I'm not mistaken, don't know about anabasine.
 
I don't think nicotine has maoi effect. Smoking tobaco has this effect and it comes from others molecules (natural or additives).
And the mix nicotine/maoi provokes addiction
 
Actually, I think nicotine acts as an MAO-B inhibitor. Can anyone else chime in here? Also, I don't know about the alkaloid profile for Nicotiana gluaca, but N. rustica contains heaps of nicotine, along with harmala alkaloids like harman and norharman. Tobacco has been used in ceremony with ayahuasca for many hundreds if not thousands of years so I don't quite buy the addiction idea. Definitely important to proceed with extreme caution though when dealing with such toxic plants.
 
You could be right Bancopuma when you say "nicotine acts as an MAO-B inhibitor" but i didn't find any information about that. On the contrary.

And about the potential dependence of the mixture nicotine / MAOI : this.

I agree with you "Can anyone else chime in here ?" :)
 
Ah good find. And it does seem like the other compounds underplayed in tobacco with regard pharmacological effect, at least on MAOI enzymes. But study wise, what behaviourally applies to caged rats may not necessarily apply to human beings. Interesting both ayahuasca (very rich MOAI source obviously) and tobacco are considered some of the most highly revered medicinal plants in the Amazon and have been so for a very long time, and are often used in healing ceremonies together...I'm not sure a strong case for addiction can be made in this context, although I'm sure it does occur (particularly given the large doses of both MAOI beta-carbolines and nicotine ingested). If addiction was such a risk factor of such a combination I doubt these plants would hold the degree of reverence they do among the healers that use them.
 
From: O USO RITUALÍSTICO DO RAPÉ (2ª edição, 2021)

O tabaco sob o ponto de vista espiritual

De maneira espiritual (xamânica ou ritualística), o tabaco é considerado uma planta de poder, sagrada e usada apenas para fins espirituais e/ou religiosos. Dentro de muitas tradições nativas, é considerada como uma planta mestre, também vista como um pai ou avô que contém toda sabedoria ancestral da floresta.
O tabaco pode ser utilizado dentro dos quatro elementos. O tabaco do fogo é o tabaco queimado em cachimbos (e similares) e apenas baforado, sem tragá-lo. Neste caso é muito utilizado para rezar. Considera-se que a fumaça lançada ao ar carrega a oração até o Grande Espírito (Deus).
Foi através da civilização ou do “homem branco” que o tabaco tomou outra dimensão (viciante, cancerígeno, etc.). Na maior parte das tradições que fazem uso ritualístico do tabaco, ele jamais é tragado – é considerado um desrespeito com o espírito ancestral desta planta sagrada.
O tabaco d’água é o tabaco preparado pela sua infusão em água (por alguns dias) e inalado via nasal ou oral (de acordo com o ritual). O tabaco da terra é tabaco seco mascado e cuspido (ritual da mascada) e o tabaco do ar é uso ritualístico do rapé (aspirado via nasal). O tabaco ainda é muito utilizado para oferenda (para a terra/Terra e para o fogo), considerado como uma forma de agradecimento ou oração.
Quando o tabaco é utilizado espiritualmente, traz purificação, centramento, transforma energias negativas em positivas, serve de mensageiro.
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Translated into English by ERIN:

The tobacco under the spiritual point of view

Spiritual way (or shamanic ritual), tobacco is considered a power plant, sacred and used only for spiritual and religious purposes. Within many native traditions, is regarded as a master plant, also seen as a father or grandfather that contains all ancestral wisdom of the forest.
The tobacco may be used within the four elements. The tobacco Fire is burned in tobacco pipes (and similar) and only blowed without bring it. In this case is very used to pray. It is assessed that smoke released in the air carries the prayer to the great spirit (God).
It was through the civilization or the "white man" that tobacco has taken another dimension (addictive, carcinogenic, etc.). In the majority of traditions that make use of ritualistic tobacco, he is never engulfed – is considered a failure with the ancestral spirit of this sacred plant.
Tobacco Water is tobacco prepared by infusion in water (a few days) and inhaled via nasal or oral (according to the ritual). The tobacco Earth is chewing tobacco and spitting (chewed, ritual) and tobacco Air is ritualistic use of snuff (aspirated via nasal). Tobacco is still widely used for offering (for Earth and fire), considered as a way of thanks or prayer.
When tobacco is used spiritually brings purification, centering, turns negative energies in positive, serves as a Messenger.
Click to expand...
 
I'm sure a drug used traditionaly and culturaly doesn't have the same addictive potential when it is used outside the cultural framework.

Who told you i'm not a rat ? :p
 
Any nexians have experience with this certain strain of tobacco. Have found multiple sites suggesting its traditional use in oral and smoked preparations. Supposedly one site mentions 5 fresh leaves are psychoactive.
 
Intrigued by the looming question of what exactly is contained within Nicotiana Glauca, I did some digging and found some viable data.

Initially I entered communication with this plant under the false pretense that Anabasine was the sole constituent. Safety first friends. Always take the time to research what you are ingesting, even if you think you know it won't harm you.
I have had good experience with this plant either way via multiple forms of administration. Though not an extensive relationship, I would advise anyone who lives around this plant to learn other species of Nicotiana before inviting this valuable medicine into your body. Smoke is used as a cure to nicotine addiction in some countries, basically why I assumed there to be no nicotine or its derivatives contained within N. Glauca. There are bits and pieces on references to Tree Tobacco's ethnobotanical history though I would recommend conducting a search for yourself if at all interested in the subject of this plant. Misinformation on the part of internet forums and ethnobotanical suppliers can lead to some unexpected or inevitable consequences.

For example:

Tobacco - Erowid Exp - 'Smoking to Stop Smoking'

An Experience with Tobacco. 'Smoking to Stop Smoking' by Floating Tuxedo
www.erowid.org
Nicotiana Glauca DOES have the potential to synthesize Nicotine
Here's further readings...

Pregnant Cows Feeding on Nicotiana Glauca


Alkaloid Composition of Nicotiana species(good references)

An Experimental Analysis of Alkaloid Production in Nicotiana: The Origin of Nornicotine

An Experimental Analysis of Alkaloid Production in Nicotiana: The Origin of Nornicotine on JSTOR

Ray F. Dawson, An Experimental Analysis of Alkaloid Production in Nicotiana: The Origin of Nornicotine, American Journal of Botany, Vol. 32, No. 7 (Jul., 1945), pp. 416-423
www.jstor.org www.jstor.org

Nicotiana Tabacum and N. Glauca hybrids inheriting alkaloids


Prickly Pear and Tree Tobacco for Ethanol Production in Semi Arid Regions

The aberrant formation of (−)-N-methylanabasine from N-methyl-Δ1-piperideinium chloride in Nicotiana tabacum and N. Glauca

Metabolism of Nicotine in Nicotiana Glauca
 

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i've read harmala/harmalol are main MAOI's in tobacco.

from the harmaline wiki and harmala wiki;
"The harmine-containing plants listed include tobacco, Peganum harmala, two species of passion flower/passion fruit, and numerous others. Lemon balm (Melissa officinalis) contains harmine.[18]

Harmala alkaloids are also found in many other plants, such as tobacco and passion flower."

Anyone who has smoked tobacco during a trip should know it takes the trip to another level.
 
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