Mini a/b Acid Volume

[2^DqoeHy*97u]

Hi. I have some DMT after an A/B extraction, I haven't weighed it yet, a couple of grams probably. It's a bit sticky and I intend to clean it using a mini a/b. I know I'll want to use more than one transfer from naphtha to the jar with acid, but can anyone tell me please is there a rule of thumb to calculate how much pH4 acid I'll need to make sure it all gets soaked up?

 

[Varallo]

As a rule of thumb, pH alone is not sufficient to determine how much acid is needed. Instead, the relevant factor is the actual amount of H⁺ ions available for protonation, which can be calculated if necessary.

In practice, however, this level of calculation is usually not required. It is often sufficient to observe whether the substance has fully dissolved, as complete dissolution generally indicates successful protonation.

A practical approach is to use acetic acid and simply add enough to dissolve the material completely. Typically, only a small volume, on the order of a few milliliters, is sufficient.

There is also no strong need to use the acid sparingly, since in a subsequent step the solution will be neutralized and basified again.

 

[2^DqoeHy*97u]

Thanks Varallo. But I may have misread the guide or asked the question badly.
My understanding is that I dissolve the dmt into nps, take that to the jar of acid and allow the dmt to move from the nps to the acid. Take the nps out and then repeat, some of the dmt into nps into the acid jar a bit at a time until the pile is gone. Multiple times because it would take a huge amount of nps to dissolve all 2+ grams at once.
I guess the 4pH might be a red herring, I used that number because that's what the guide says use for the original extraction so will probably work here. But whatever, any pH which works.
But if I only use say 50ml of acid I don't know if that's enough for the whole amount of dmt to be absorbed. How will I know that the naphtha isn't sat at the top of the jar holding onto its load because the acid is saturated. But, say, 500ml, is probably too much and just wasteful and harder to handle, especially once it's been turned into a pH12 base.
I'm just wondering how much acid to put into the jar to get the ball rolling.

 

[2^DqoeHy*97u]

IF that didn't come across well I guess another way of asking the question is what is the saturation point of the acid. If 100ml ph 4 acid can hold [random numbers] exactly 0.5g DMT then I can work backwards from there.

 

[Varallo]

Okay, since im not sure what acid you intend to use, I suggest that you use vinegar, for each gram DMT you need 6,4ml of 5% vinegar. Usually an excess is used, so for your 2 grams of DMT you can be sure that when using 20ml of vinegar alll DMT will be easily protonated.

Hope that helps

 

[2^DqoeHy*97u]

Okay, since im not sure what acid you intend to use, I suggest that you use vinegar, for each gram DMT you need 6,4ml of 5% vinegar. Usually an excess is used, so for your 2 grams of DMT you can be sure that when using 20ml of vinegar alll DMT will be easily protonated.

Hope that helps

That hit the spot, nice one! And crikey, I would have thought loads more than that!

 

[blig-blug]

My understanding is that I dissolve the dmt into nps, take that to the jar of acid and allow the dmt to move from the nps to the acid. Take the nps out and then repeat, some of the dmt into nps into the acid jar a bit at a time until the pile is gone

It's more convenient to dissolve the DMT into acidic liquid, basify, and then extract from the basic soup with the NPS, as if it were an extraction. In fact, that's what A/B is. What you mention would still require posterior basifying and pulling with NPS, so I'd do that directly. DMT freebase will dissolve well into an acidic liquid.

 

[Varallo]

It's more convenient to dissolve the DMT into acidic liquid, basify, and then extract from the basic soup with the NPS, as if it were an extraction. In fact, that's what A/B is. What you mention would still require posterior basifying and pulling with NPS, so I'd do that directly. DMT freebase will dissolve well into an acidic liquid.

There’s also an argument for doing it that way. If you back-extract from your non-polar phase, everything that dissolves in it, other than your desired freebase DMT, will remain there. If you then don’t reuse that same non-polar phase for the extraction but instead use a fresh one, you’re effectively performing a second cleanup step. That can be a valid reason to do it.

Is it easier? I’m not sure. I don’t think it makes a huge difference.

 

[2^DqoeHy*97u]

It's more convenient to dissolve the DMT into acidic liquid, basify, and then extract from the basic soup with the NPS, as if it were an extraction. In fact, that's what A/B is. What you mention would still require posterior basifying and pulling with NPS, so I'd do that directly. DMT freebase will dissolve well into an acidic liquid.

Now I understand Varallo's first reply! Sorry Varallo, I hadn't realised that it could be done this way , I was following the nexus Essential DMT Guide which offers the nps method as if it were a necessary step.

There’s also an argument for doing it that way. If you back-extract from your non-polar phase, everything that dissolves in it, other than your desired freebase DMT, will remain there. If you then don’t reuse that same non-polar phase for the extraction but instead use a fresh one, you’re effectively performing a second cleanup step. That can be a valid reason to do it.

Is it easier? I’m not sure. I don’t think it makes a huge difference.

Is word for word how I was intending to proceed. The extra investment is little enough to be worth it I think. Thanks again!

 

[Varallo]

Now I understand Varallo's first reply! Sorry Varallo, I hadn't realised that it could be done this way , I was following the nexus Essential DMT Guide which offers the nps method as if it were a necessary step.


Is word for word how I was intending to proceed. The extra investment is little enough to be worth it I think. Thanks again!

Full circle ️