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My Experience of Kanna (Scleletium Tortuosum)

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Cosmic Dust

Cosmic Dust

Shades of vapour
Kanna is a drug traditionally used in South Africa, I have heard, no source sorry, that in high doses it has been used in ritual settings but mostly in lower doses as an antidepressant and stimulant.
It's mainly an SRI, but according to this study it has effects on norepinephrine reuptake, some gabbaergic receptors, opioid and inhibition of PDE3 and PDE4 enzymes.
So beware of certain interactions.
Unfermented Kanna contains quite a lot of oxalic acid which... dismantles the liver I think, unfortunately I haven't found any studies on what's left of it after the fermentation process but I don't think it's feasible on a regular basis in the long run.

https://www.researchgate...ublication..._alkaloids

Its claimed efficacy in depression has been linked to inhibitory effects on 5-HT reuptake (Gericke and Viljoen, 200Cool, although these effects have not been thoroughly studied. The present results demonstrate that the proprietary standardised extract of Sceletium tortuosum known as Zembrin® does have potent inhibitory effects on the 5-HT trans- carrier. Considering that a plant extract can contain several hundred components, it is perhaps surprising that Sceletium extract affected so few sites in the broad panel of receptors, ion channels, transporters and enzymes used in this study. Potent inhibitory activity was also found against PDE4 and, to a lesser extent, PDE3, but not for other PDEs. Significant reductions in radioligand binding to a few receptors were also observed: GABA receptors, 2-opioid receptors, -opioid receptors, cholecystokinin-1 (or -A) receptors, EP4 prostaglandin receptors and melatonin-1 receptors. However, the concentrations required were 30 to 150 times higher than those required with 5-HT transport tests. Therefore, the clinical effects of Sceletium tortuosum extract (Zembrin®Pleased are likely to derive from their inhibitory effects on 5-HT reuptake processes and PDE4 activity. Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors are well known as antidepressants, and PDE4 inhibitors have also attracted considerable attention as potential antidepressants, although clinically tested pharmaceutical compounds have had dose-limiting side effects, namely nausea and vomiting (Kanes et al., 2007).
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That's all very interesting, but what did it do to me and why did I take it?


Basically because I was depressed and I had good results for a while with sertraline, an SSRI, but it started not to work anymore, altered my moods even more and made me angry and didn't help my mood anymore. So I stopped and I had already read a lot about Kanna in search of self-medication. I also had Mirtazapine which did not help my mood and which I dropped for another reason (0 energy, impossible to wake up).

It can be chewed, made into a tea, smoked, snorted, I'm only going to talk about the tea and sublingual.

Between 0.5 and 1g of the plant in a tea during the day, often drunk in two doses a few hours apart, proved to be very effective on me to silence the dark thoughts, ruminations, desires of mutilation and suicidal ideation, I could be in a very bad day and the Kanna helped to chase these thoughts from my mind. Unlike antidepressants, the effect is immediate and you don't need to take it daily for it to be effective, so I would only take the tea on days when I was feeling quite low, as I said above I don't think it's great on a daily basis. At these doses, in addition to the depressive thoughts that disappeared, I felt a body high that could be both relaxing and stimulating depending on the context, which is quite typical I think of sero drugs. As far as side effects are concerned, it makes you insomniac if you take it too late in the afternoon and it can cause nausea and diarrhea, but I didn't have much of that at these doses.
To sum up, I would say that it's really an effective crutch but I wouldn't recommend relying on it in the long term, it's also a bit stimulating but if you get close to 1g it can become more tedious to be well concentrated. For a duration ... between 4 and 6 hours I would say maybe a bit more.

I have also used Kanna recreationally

In the evening with friends, if I chew about 1g I feel a certain serotoninergic high quite euphoric at the same time there is a trippy high like I smoked a joint of a very weak weed, there was clearly an empathogenic effect and a manageable dehinibition (not like alcohol etc...), desire to share things, feeling of connection with my friends, the music sounds much better, if I drink a not strong beer, I want to laugh and dance. Later in the evening and two beers later I think, I walk again 1.5g, I have a bit of a stomach ache this time but it's still manageable, I'm stimulated and euphoric, I get in the mood of my friends who have drunk a lot, in short I had a good time.

I've used it in combination with cannabis, Benzo and Kratom, both depressants potentiate the euphoria of high recreational doses and the feeling of being high while making the body high more enjoyable.
It makes cannabis very psychedelic at high doses of both, I had very meditative almost dissociative mental effects, feeling like I was floating in vague colours and shapes with my eyes closed, music becomes magical and even with my eyes open all the colours are more vibrant and the HD textures a bit like a low dose of psychedelic. If I took too much (more than 3-4g in my house), very strong nausea or even vomiting but from 1.5-2g, I always had some nausea but I never took these doses without a big joint or vapo or cannabis oil and in my house cannabis calms the nausea.
Meditating in this state is very pleasant and interesting. It's easier to let your thoughts and feelings flow.
 
Bit late on this one, but thanks for sharing your experience with Kanna. I was about to make a thread asking for someone's experience with this herb, but it seems like your account of that should suffice.

I've been interested in kanna for a bit now. I used to take kratom almost daily back in the day and I loved it a lot. Thankfully no issues stopping and no withdrawal effects at all after an entire year of taking 4-5 grams a day.

I'd like to incorporate kanna in a similar way in my daily routine. My usage of it would primarily be recreational. Take the edge off a busy day at work, enjoy food/music/gaming more than usual, etc. Would you say it's not a good idea to take it daily? Also, did you consume it powdered, or leaves/stems/seeds?

Thank you in advance for sharing more on this.

Love & Light :love:
 
I'll add my most memorable experience. I'd used it a fair amount of times smoking small amounts, bits sublingually, and tea once, just to get a good baseline and understanding of its effects beforehand.

That said, this night me a friend shared a king sized joint worth(about half each) and I'd had a shot of moonshine and a pinch of weed...although I don't really remember feeling high. We were at a concert and nothing of note happened for the first hour. Then one minute we were in a circle talking then the next, I was extremely disoriented and intoxicated and my sense of time started shifting. Walking a few feet became an enormous task. Slightly psychedelic, kinda in the weed way but I just went into the preservation state and didn't concern myself with others much. My friend whom I smoked with had also started feeling the effects at the same time, he didn't smoke weed but did have a shot which is why I attribute the effects to the kanna. Lasted several hours and we somehow made it home in his car considering we were still fairly intoxicated like 3hrs later. Not the most pleasurable...and not something I particularly care to repeat but I don't regret it.

Anyway start low, go slow. Especially when smoking
 
breathingneon said:
I'll add my most memorable experience. I'd used it a fair amount of times smoking small amounts, bits sublingually, and tea once, just to get a good baseline and understanding of its effects beforehand.

That said, this night me a friend shared a king sized joint worth(about half each) and I'd had a shot of moonshine and a pinch of weed...although I don't really remember feeling high. We were at a concert and nothing of note happened for the first hour. Then one minute we were in a circle talking then the next, I was extremely disoriented and intoxicated and my sense of time started shifting. Walking a few feet became an enormous task. Slightly psychedelic, kinda in the weed way but I just went into the preservation state and didn't concern myself with others much. My friend whom I smoked with had also started feeling the effects at the same time, he didn't smoke weed but did have a shot which is why I attribute the effects to the kanna. Lasted several hours and we somehow made it home in his car considering we were still fairly intoxicated like 3hrs later. Not the most pleasurable...and not something I particularly care to repeat but I don't regret it.

Anyway start low, go slow. Especially when smoking
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Thanks for sharing your experience. Nowadays I don't smoke anything anymore, but I'll most likely take it orally or as a tea. There is a fair amount of warnings not to mix kanna with other stuff, especially alcohol, so I would imagine that's what caused this rather unpleasant way. I'd imagine it goes well with just weed, but add alcohol into the mix and things get nasty. In any case, I will definitely give it a try.
 

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Nydex said:
Bit late on this one, but thanks for sharing your experience with Kanna. I was about to make a thread asking for someone's experience with this herb, but it seems like your account of that should suffice.

I've been interested in kanna for a bit now. I used to take kratom almost daily back in the day and I loved it a lot. Thankfully no issues stopping and no withdrawal effects at all after an entire year of taking 4-5 grams a day.

I'd like to incorporate kanna in a similar way in my daily routine. My usage of it would primarily be recreational. Take the edge off a busy day at work, enjoy food/music/gaming more than usual, etc. Would you say it's not a good idea to take it daily? Also, did you consume it powdered, or leaves/stems/seeds?

Thank you in advance for sharing more on this.

Love & Light :love:
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4-5 gpd Kratom can yield little to no WD symptoms. Double, triple + that appears more likely to cause physical dependency. After 3 years of 20gpd my wds were insomnia for three nights along with feeling a wreck. 3 months on yielded almost no wds aside from one slightly sleepless night. 2/3x per week in moderation appears ideal if one can cultivate that discipline. Otherwise I'd say never try it as it's not worth risking getting trapped in it becoming something that has you.

Kanna appears superior in many respects pharmacologically. Quite a few anecdotes on chronic pain vanishing a month later, profound emotional accessing in ritual use, and a real connection to an entheogenic plant healer/Spirit.

I've been quite hard on myself for being a "hopeless addict" and that I should just "get sober". But in reality relationship to plants is in my/our genetics and it's much more about right relationship as opposed to vice based numbing. A journey indeed and I cant thank the great folks enough for beaconing correct usage of all of these teachers over the years.
 
livinglight108 said:
4-5 gpd Kratom can yield little to no WD symptoms. Double, triple + that appears more likely to cause physical dependency. After 3 years of 20gpd my wds were insomnia for three nights along with feeling a wreck. 3 months on yielded almost no wds aside from one slightly sleepless night. 2/3x per week in moderation appears ideal if one can cultivate that discipline. Otherwise I'd say never try it as it's not worth risking getting trapped in it becoming something that has you.

Kanna appears superior in many respects pharmacologically. Quite a few anecdotes on chronic pain vanishing a month later, profound emotional accessing in ritual use, and a real connection to an entheogenic plant healer/Spirit.

I've been quite hard on myself for being a "hopeless addict" and that I should just "get sober". But in reality relationship to plants is in my/our genetics and it's much more about right relationship as opposed to vice based numbing. A journey indeed and I cant thank the great folks enough for beaconing correct usage of all of these teachers over the years.
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Usually I can handle substances quite well in terms of my proclivity for abuse. I've never been the addictive type, honestly. I used to do large amounts of stimulants back in the day, and I also smoked 1 1/2 packs of cigarettes a day, and I quit both of those without any real struggle or difficulties.

I'm not without my addictions, of course, but thankfully they're of a different, arguably less harmful nature. I will definitely look into Kanna more, and also to your upcoming report :)
 
Nydex said:
Usually I can handle substances quite well in terms of my proclivity for abuse. I've never been the addictive type, honestly. I used to do large amounts of stimulants back in the day, and I also smoked 1 1/2 packs of cigarettes a day, and I quit both of those without any real struggle or difficulties.

I'm not without my addictions, of course, but thankfully they're of a different, arguably less harmful nature. I will definitely look into Kanna more, and also to your upcoming report :)
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I have always appreciated others who are devoid of my over doer proclivities.

100mg of a 1% TA extract yielded profound subtle impacts on my mind, heart, body. I read that some not predisposed to subtle energies of plants might experience zero effect. I would imagine those types would likely feel it at higher dosages though i am unsure.

A lightening, a calming, an opening. The empathogenic qualities feel quite grounded and very noticable. Some anecdotal reports yield it helpful with substance addictions which I hope to be a testimony to over time along with other life changes.

I have three versions one of which I acquired today. One is a whole unfermented plant form. One is a ta extraction. One is an extraction from another vendor.

The sweetness of vendor 1s ta xtract is slightly sweet and a little bitter. A pleasant change in bitterness of other medicines ingested.

I love certain proclaimations surrounding its capacity to build community through opening the heart. Indeed it seems much needed.
 
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