My Proposed Amanita Muscaria Microdose Tincture

[theAlkēmist]

I am thinking of this tincture for my clients with PTSD, depression, and/or anxiety. Thoughts?

Amanita Muscaria Microdose Tincture

One Dose = 500mg dried mushroom = 20mg of 25:1 extract.
10mL tinctures = 200 drops = 5 drops per dose is 40 doses.
800mg of 25:1 extract per tincture.
Add 400mg of l-ascorbic acid (vitamin C) as a preservative.

To make up a 10mL tincture
- 9mL vodka
- 800mg 25:1 extract
- 400mg l-ascorbic acid

Contains isoxazole alkaloids
- ibotenic acid
- muscimol
- muscazone
- muscaridine

Ibotenic acid is a neurotoxin. UV light decarboxylates ibotenic acid to muscimol (the safe alkaloid). However, UV light also degrades muscimol into an inactive compound.

After three days of sun drying there is 47% ibotenic acid left with maximum muscimol content.

After eleven days of sun drying there is 8% ibotenic acid left but only 32% of muscimol left.

Decarboxylation is a sigmoidal trend, so between 3 and 11 days the decarboxylation will be approximately linear. Each day between 3 and 11 days will decarboxylate 4.875% ibotenic acid and 8.5% muscimol. If we use 7 days drying we will have 27.5% ibotenic acid and 66% muscimol left.

At 3 days sunlight a gram has 582μg ibotenic acid and 256μg muscimol.
At 11 days sunlight a gram has 130μg ibotenic acid and 119μg muscimol.
At 7 days sunlight a gram has 356μg ibotenic acid and 188μg muscimol.

The 7 day sunlight 500mg dried dose (20mg 25:1 extract) contains 176μg ibotenic acid and 144μg muscimol, making this a microdose.

- Toxic hallucinations dose for ibotenic acid is 30-60mg.
- Hallucination dose for muscimol is 10-15mg.

7 day sunlight exposed 1.4-2.1g 25:1 extract contains 10-15mg of muscimol but only 12-28mg ibotenic acid.

This makes 7 days sunlight a perfect amount.


References Used
1. https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/shokueishi1960/34/2/34_2_153/_pdf/-char/en
2. Coma in the course of severe poisoning after consumption of red fly agaric (Amanita muscaria). | Acta Biochimica Polonica

 

[RoundAbout]

However, UV light also decarboxylates muscimol into an inactive compound.

I don't see any carboxyl groups on muscimol to remove.

Decarboxylation is a sigmoidal trend, so between 3 and 11 days the decarboxylation will be approximately linear.

In theory maybe. You do only have 2 data points. One prominent variable: UV flux varies quite significantly between latitudes, seasons and atmospheric conditions.

Anyways, I won't belabour the point, but I think acid-boils are an undeniable improvement. I guess you don't like them though.

I think the estimate of toxic dosage for ibotenic acid is applicable to acute doses and does not indicate much about chronic use. Granted, this is a microdose and it will sit in stomach acid so there probably won't be very much absorbed.

I would be hesitant giving this to others.

Edit: Removed rudeness.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Giving this to clients (are these other members in your cult paying you for your service or what?) seems a little irresponsible but...

Don't go jumping to conclusions, medicinal herbalists are a thing too and it's fair to say they can charge a reasonable fee for their services like anyone else.

Take a little read of this: Attitude Page - DMT-Nexus Wiki


(Your points on the chemistry do stand, however.)

 

[theAlkēmist]

Yes you are right, my mistake, I should say the UV degrades muscimol into an inactive compound, which is what studies suggest.

And UV does fluctuate a lot. I will experiment after different sunlight exposure to evaluate when it doesn’t cause negative effects.

And this is not irresponsible, psychiatrists prescribing antipsychotics and antidepressants is irresponsible. A large chunk of these people desperately want to get off these pharmaceuticals, they don’t help in the long run, and these will be mostly directed at veterans who have lost mates to suicide even when on these poisons, and these people make an informed educated decision about this path.

This is not about making money within my cult. Which is rather rude and quite an assumption. And I don’t see how individualist alchemy remotely resembles a cult, but that is a different discussion, your uneducation on this subject shows.

And there has been quite a bit of research into this by me and others. Furthermore, I’m coming here for some constructive criticism on top of the research, both practically and theoretical, there has been quite a bit of research done on the different muscarinic receptors.

And this is a proposal only.

 

[theAlkēmist]

However, UV light also decarboxylates muscimol into an inactive compound.

I don't see any carboxyl groups on muscimol to remove.

Decarboxylation is a sigmoidal trend, so between 3 and 11 days the decarboxylation will be approximately linear.

In theory maybe. You do only have 2 data points. One prominent variable: UV flux varies quite significantly between latitudes, seasons and atmospheric conditions.

Anyways, I won't belabour the point, but I think acid-boils are an undeniable improvement. I guess you don't like them though.

I think the estimate of toxic dosage for ibotenic acid is applicable to acute doses and does not indicate much about chronic use. Granted, this is a microdose and it will sit in stomach acid so there probably won't be very much absorbed.

Giving this to clients (are these other members in your cult paying you for your service or what?) seems a little irresponsible but...

And I’m currently in an electric wheelchair due to nerve damage from an infection, so I do have carers around, so I keep things as PG+ as possible. This is why I prefer to sundry over acid boil. Although I don’t understand why you’re constantly questioning my intentions.

 

[RoundAbout]

And this is not irresponsible, psychiatrists prescribing antipsychotics and antidepressants is irresponsible. A large chunk of these people desperately want to get off these pharmaceuticals, they don’t help in the long run, and these will be mostly directed at veterans who have lost mates to suicide even when on these poisons, and these people make an informed educated decision about this path.

I think antipsychotics and antidepressants are over recommended/requested, sometimes for the sake of expediency, but they are useful. I believe discontinuation of antidepressants can be very tricky with the destabilization and 'discontinuation syndrome'. It's probably a tough call for physicians... they have pretty limited ability to change people's lives.

This is not about making money within my cult. Which is rather rude and quite an assumption. And I don’t see how individualist alchemy remotely resembles a cult, but that is a different discussion, your uneducation on this subject shows.

Well, what's the general term for this sort of group/tradition that is less pejorative? Traditional group? I am uneducated on it, that's why I generalize. I only hope the people you're giving this to truly are making informed, educated decisions, and that your intention is truly pure. If people are ceasing their SSRI's in desperation to use vibrational frequency healing that's a sticky situation.

And I’m currently in an electric wheelchair due to nerve damage from an infection, so I do have carers around, so I keep things as PG+ as possible. This is why I prefer to sundry over acid boil. Although I don’t understand why you’re constantly questioning my intentions.

Ah, fair enough. Re: acid boils I'm just questioning your choice of procedure because 1. you're giving it to others, 2. you're presenting and already suggesting your own procedure to others in different threads. You have personal reasons not to use it, but otherwise I am simply trying to determine the best procedure for preparing caps. If you have any other reasons I'd be glad to hear, and if your method is best that's what I will use in the future.

 

[theAlkēmist]

Yes antipsychotics and antidepressants are most definitely over prescribed, I worked as a nurse in mental health for 8 years, and I can definitely say in a large amount of cases they do not help in the long run, they are not a cure, these issues are psychological not neurochemical deficiencies (generally), thus we need a holistic not a biochemical approach (although the biomedical model has its applications, I’m not dismissing it).

Muscarinic receptors are greatly involved in memory and flashbacks, so agonisation alongside psychotherapy is very beneficial. Remember this isn’t a psychoactive dose, it’s a microdose.

I should have given more credit to acid boiling, it is superior, but also messier. But I suggested UV when I see people plain boiling or oven heating. UV is still harm reduction. But noted, I’ll be more careful in my words.

And these ‘traditional groups’ are called Hemetic Societies. And most alchemy is a self-exploration of the spiritual self. It is not lawed and authoritarian. Although there are a great deal of books and guides in The Work. There are mentors you can choose to learn from but this is not a requirement. Once we are satisfied in our own self-development we start to share ideologies. It is the extreme opposite of what a cult is.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

nerve damage

Hey, have you tried Hericium/Lion's Mane to assist neural repair?

Muscarinic receptors are greatly involved in memory and flashbacks

I was reading today that Prazosin is highly effective in treating nightmares related to PTSD; this is because of its NE-blocking effect. Do you think there are plant-based alternatives that might have a similar effect (NE-blocking)?

Also, "Muscimol is a potent, selective agonist for the GABAA receptors" - despite the similar-sounding names, the action of muscimol is very different from that of muscarine. Hopefully this helps point you in the right direction in understanding the way your tincture might be of any use.

 

[theAlkēmist]

nerve damage

Hey, have you tried Hericium/Lion's Mane to assist neural repair?

Muscarinic receptors are greatly involved in memory and flashbacks

I was reading today that Prazosin is highly effective in treating nightmares related to PTSD; this is because of its NE-blocking effect. Do you think there are plant-based alternatives that might have a similar effect (NE-blocking)?

Also, "Muscimol is a potent, selective agonist for the GABAA receptors" - despite the similar-sounding names, the action of muscimol is very different from that of muscarine. Hopefully this helps point you in the right direction in understanding the way your tincture might be of any use.

Yes I do along with a few other NGF inducing herbs/barks/mushrooms

Let me double check the muscarinic receptors, if I made that mistake it’s rather stupid of me. I guess that’s why people peer review work.

 

[theAlkēmist]

Fuck I’m an idiot:

“Muscimol (Figure 1(e)) is one of the most widely used agonists in the investigation of ionotropic GABA receptors. It is a more potent agonist at GABAC receptors than at GABAA receptors.”

 

[Tony6Strings]

I would be hesitant giving this to others.

I agree.