N-N-DMT versus Psilocybin\Psilocyn for those of us that where Magic Mushrooms have no Psychedelic effect

[EastTNBill]

This may be one of the last remaining places on the interwebs where these questions may be asked. So, here it goes.

Firstly, I have both PTSD and C-PTSD. The PTSD experience was 20 years after C-PTSD and, now, thirty years later I'm still seeking help and refuge and relief from these conditions. I've been in talk therapy for decades, tried meds, tried TMS, tried electro-shock, tried neurofeedback, and tried low, medium, and finally tried 10g of dried Melmac and then tried 10g grams of dried APE...but felt nothing. Maybe a tad queasy is all. Lemon TEK is def. the way to take that stuff, btw. I know I had good stuff because I've tested it and then sent it out to be tested. However, from reading studies, Psilocyn without the psychedelic effects still is doing some good the studies claim, and I do feel somewhat better...I'm but I'm still losing life to these conditions.

So, I'm "ratcheting it up" to the next level. I've learned how to extract N-N-DMT Shockingly easy if one can acquire MHRB. Certainly easier than growing mushrooms. So, finally, my questions are the following. Are there any folks than can chime in on their experiences in regard to Shrooms VS. N-N-DMT? Anyone else have a nervous system that prevents the psychedelic effects but still gained relief with Psilocyn therapy? Has N-N-DMT helped with depression and trauma and their over-active nervous system?

Please help. Running out of options. And anyone who knows the type of pain I'm in also knows where my thoughts lead me....

Thank you kindly in advance,
EastTNBill

 

[spyfish]

I don’t really have good answers, but is it possible you’re not converting psilocybin to psilocin?

I would be very surprised if vaporized DMT doesn’t work on you as it doesn’t depend on any metabolism. Have you considered a guided ayahuasca session instead? In terms of healing and psychological benefit, ayahuasca was powerful for me. I think it has more healing potential than DMT.

As for mushrooms, there’s also various RCs that has similar to almost identical effects.

I hope you find what you are seeking

 

[EastTNBill]

I don’t really have good answers, but is it possible you’re not converting psilocybin to psilocin?

I would be very surprised if vaporized DMT doesn’t work on you as it doesn’t depend on any metabolism. Have you considered a guided ayahuasca session instead? In terms of healing and psychological benefit, ayahuasca was powerful for me. I think it has more healing potential than DMT.

As for mushrooms, there’s also various RCs that has similar to almost identical effects.

I hope you find what you are seeking

I believe you are correct that N-N-DMT should easily break through. My research on that concurs that hope hence my moving on toward this treatment modality.

As far as a guided ayahuasca session, yes, I have considered it but a trip to the Amazon Jungle isn't in the cards for me at this time. Truth be told, however, there are innumerable accounts of guests of ayahuasca retreats requiring two or even three attempts to "break through" and have their body/brain/mind "allow" the healing and experience. And these have been reported by, and/or corroborated by, shamans as well.

I have read repeatedly that the entourage effect of natural and complete mushrooms is always the way to go as there's more to the healing gift than just Psilocybin. That's probably why Big Pharma is having trouble with the isolated and synthesized Psilocyn having the same benefit of the natural route in many of their trials.

Hearing from you and others will surely help me close in on these medicines and getting them to work for me. So, I thank you kindly for your response.

Kind regards,
EastTNBill

 

[spyfish]

Jungle isn't in the cards for me at this time.

Not necessary to go to the Jungle for Ayahuasca, or pharmahuasca for that matter. Depending on your location, Ceremonies are everywhere. But can't help with the specifics on organized ceremonies. Ayahuasca analogs are easy to brew at home.

requiring two or even three attempts to "break through" and have their body/brain/mind "allow" the healing and experience.

This is a common misconception. Break trough can be fun, spiritual, mystical and in some ways healing. But its the sub breakthrough states that have the biggest potential for actual psychological healing. And gotta step your toes in first, never a good idea to jump n head first not the abyss unprepared. But yes, multiple sessions are often required.

Psychedelics are some magical thing that heals everyone. Its a tool that allows you to work on yourself. But its you that have to do the work, be willing to look at and work on the difficult things. By themselves, without any work on your part; you' just be tripping and nothing really changes. Is the "medium" doses/states that really have the potential for healing, as you are still somewhat lucid and can do real introspective work. With heavy ayahusaca doses, its often on the comedown that I get the most long term benefits and self healing. The breakthrough peaks can be amazing, blissful, divine etc, but dont necessarily change anything long term other then refueling you with some love. But can result in a few weeks afterglow, which is awesome (but temporary)

Also, you can have the most amazing epiphanies/revelations, thinking you found the answer to your mental problems. But if you don't make any changes and just go back to just living your life; Eventually it will go back to have it was before. No need to over complicate it though, integration just means you take some actual steps/actions to change your life based on what you may have learned.

You also need to be aware that psychedelics can just as easily inflate as deflate ego. So many go down the wrong path, having seen god thinking they are special/chosen etc. Easy to avoid with the right mindset though. Just be aware that psychedelics isn't automatically this magic benevolent thing. Its a tool, and tools can be used good and bad. It doesn't automatically make a bad person good. I guess it can, but in most cases not.

Just want to make sure you have the right expectations going on this path. And it can be very very powerful tool with high potential for healing. And spiritual growth. Just keep at least one foot on the ground (most of the time anyway haha)

 

[Varallo]

Hi Bill,

Before trying to help you, are you on any medication or where you when trying the mushrooms? 10 grams is a dose that would be a high dose for most and it’s uncommon not to experience anything from that amount.

 

[EastTNBill]

Not necessary to go to the Jungle for Ayahuasca, or pharmahuasca for that matter. Depending on your location, Ceremonies are everywhere. But can't help with the specifics on organized ceremonies. Ayahuasca analogs are easy to brew at home.


This is a common misconception. Break trough can be fun, spiritual, mystical and in some ways healing. But its the sub breakthrough states that have the biggest potential for actual psychological healing. And gotta step your toes in first, never a good idea to jump n head first not the abyss unprepared. But yes, multiple sessions are often required.

Psychedelics are some magical thing that heals everyone. Its a tool that allows you to work on yourself. But its you that have to do the work, be willing to look at and work on the difficult things. By themselves, without any work on your part; you' just be tripping and nothing really changes. Is the "medium" doses/states that really have the potential for healing, as you are still somewhat lucid and can do real introspective work. With heavy ayahusaca doses, its often on the comedown that I get the most long term benefits and self healing. The breakthrough peaks can be amazing, blissful, divine etc, but dont necessarily change anything long term other then refueling you with some love. But can result in a few weeks afterglow, which is awesome (but temporary)

Also, you can have the most amazing epiphanies/revelations, thinking you found the answer to your mental problems. But if you don't make any changes and just go back to just living your life; Eventually it will go back to have it was before. No need to over complicate it though, integration just means you take some actual steps/actions to change your life based on what you may have learned.

You also need to be aware that psychedelics can just as easily inflate as deflate ego. So many go down the wrong path, having seen god thinking they are special/chosen etc. Easy to avoid with the right mindset though. Just be aware that psychedelics isn't automatically this magic benevolent thing. Its a tool, and tools can be used good and bad. It doesn't automatically make a bad person good. I guess it can, but in most cases not.

Just want to make sure you have the right expectations going on this path. And it can be very very powerful tool with high potential for healing. And spiritual growth. Just keep at least one foot on the ground (most of the time anyway haha)

Thank you for your well thought-out reply. All very good advice and it is consistent with what I've learned over the last few years of studying about Psilocybin and now N-N-DMT.

Thankfully, I've become a very good meditator over the years thanks to the work of Thich Nhat Hanh (RIP), Joe Dispenza, and Eckhart Tolle. I find meditation to be a critical part of my life now. I do take good care of my body as well and am fortunate to be married to a DC that knows and teaches wellness. In my testing with Psilocybin, I have practiced sound "Set and Setting" to the best of my ability but my mind is a rogue entity. Again, there's some research that healing is occurring even without the psychedelic experiences.

I think the issue in my case is my nervous system remaining in dorsal vagal rather than ever relaxing into para-sympathetic. The PTSD has somehow locked me into a relatively permanent "Fight/Flight/Fawn" state. I use a HeartMath monitor and it does nice job of providing insight into my current Heart/Brain/Breath coherence. I typically will do a HeartMath session, then meditate, before going on to a neurofeedback session. While I'm not comfortable with sharing the details of my PTSD's genesis, it was extreme to say the least.

I've also found research, albeit limited, that some of us blessed with (or cursed with) a high intelligence quotient (150 in my case) have difficulty returning to a healthy state after prolonged trauma exposure/experiences and, then, thereby are resistant to "allowing" for these medicines (Magic Mushrooms) to do their work. However, again, I am certainly getting better just very slowly and with setbacks that impact the loved ones around me. The brain mapping does show some increases in coherence between the hemispheres for sure. It's just hard to tell if it's the mediation, HeartMath, neurofeedback, or "heroic dose" of Psilocybin and the following microdosing that I'm still doing.

I'll try to track down safe ayahuasca practitioners. That's good advice. I've "heard" they're practicing here in the 'States but haven't, admittedly, spent much time tracking that down.

Lastly, I'm aware that psychedelics have the potential to augment an unhealthful ego or dissolve it. That's a risk very much worth heading, indeed!

Kind regards,
EastTNBill

 

[EastTNBill]

Hi Bill,

Before trying to help you, are you on any medication or where you when trying the mushrooms? 10 grams is a dose that would be a high dose for most and it’s uncommon not to experience anything from that amount.

Hello, Varallo. Thanks for the reply. Nope, no medications. I'm an otherwise healthy individual. I'm aware that benzodiazepines and other pharmaceuticals can interfere with these medicines. Good tip, though, for others that may be unaware for sure.

Kindly,
EastTNBill

 

[Sabnock1990]

Ya know, you can easily brew the Aya plants at home, the common dosages are known, you can take the Harmala portion first and then say 30 minutes to an hour later (i recommend an hour) take the DMT portion so you can fully/maximally orally activate the DMT. You can also sip on the DMT-containing tea portion for 5 to 10 to 15 minutes instead of consuming the DMT all at once, so that if sipped for say 10 minutes the come up will be much smoother and with little to no intensity which makes it more comfortable and gentler to work with compared to the DMT kicking in all at once and it being hella intense. You can also add 3 to 4 grams of dried Lemon Balm leaf tea to the mix in order to add anti-anxiety and relaxative properties to it, it'll also help clean up the bodyload and reduce come up intensity while providing more of a positive experience and while maintaining the mystical and higher states and overall benefits. You can also check out Psilohuasca, mixing mushrooms with Harmalas/Rue/Caapi, in order to have an Aya experience but using Psilocin instead of the DMT, it's still Ayahuasca, still an Ayahuasca experience, just some slight differences in receptor binding between Psilocin and DMT but they both take me to the same territory, and it's the Harmalas that makes it Aya. Of course there's also Pharmahuasca, "Vaporhuasca", Changa, perhaps "Nasalhuasca" or what not if that's doable (which i'm sure it is), you definitely don't have to go anywhere to work with this medicine, you just need the plants/compounds. And aside from Lemon Balm, there's a wide, wide variety of different potential admixture plants one can add to Aya or any of the combinations, or even that can be added to mushrooms themselves or other Psychedelics, in order to "flavor" the effects/experience in different ways or to reduce certain side-effects or to add other benefits to the mix.

 

[Panpsychic]

This may be one of the last remaining places on the interwebs where these questions may be asked. So, here it goes.

Firstly, I have both PTSD and C-PTSD. The PTSD experience was 20 years after C-PTSD and, now, thirty years later I'm still seeking help and refuge and relief from these conditions. I've been in talk therapy for decades, tried meds, tried TMS, tried electro-shock, tried neurofeedback, and tried low, medium, and finally tried 10g of dried Melmac and then tried 10g grams of dried APE...but felt nothing. Maybe a tad queasy is all. Lemon TEK is def. the way to take that stuff, btw. I know I had good stuff because I've tested it and then sent it out to be tested. However, from reading studies, Psilocyn without the psychedelic effects still is doing some good the studies claim, and I do feel somewhat better...I'm but I'm still losing life to these conditions.

So, I'm "ratcheting it up" to the next level. I've learned how to extract N-N-DMT Shockingly easy if one can acquire MHRB. Certainly easier than growing mushrooms. So, finally, my questions are the following. Are there any folks than can chime in on their experiences in regard to Shrooms VS. N-N-DMT? Anyone else have a nervous system that prevents the psychedelic effects but still gained relief with Psilocyn therapy? Has N-N-DMT helped with depression and trauma and their over-active nervous system?

Please help. Running out of options. And anyone who knows the type of pain I'm in also knows where my thoughts lead me....

Thank you kindly in advance,
EastTNBill

As has been said, its the Harmalas and the DMT together that are "the force and the light". This is a sacred combination that will heal you from within if you allow it to.

Perspective is key. There is more than one life, I know this both from psychedelics as well as multiple spiritual traditions, but our problems on a psyche level will go with us so there is really no escape. The only option is gently doing the work on oneself and gradually overcoming the issues here while we have this opportunity. Making use of our life to help ourselves and others.

Bring your meditative skills into the experience working with these tools and you will overcome although it will be difficult at times but this is the path.

 

[EastTNBill]

Ya know, you can easily brew the Aya plants at home, the common dosages are known, you can take the Harmala portion first and then say 30 minutes to an hour later (i recommend an hour) take the DMT portion so you can fully/maximally orally activate the DMT. You can also sip on the DMT-containing tea portion for 5 to 10 to 15 minutes instead of consuming the DMT all at once, so that if sipped for say 10 minutes the come up will be much smoother and with little to no intensity which makes it more comfortable and gentler to work with compared to the DMT kicking in all at once and it being hella intense. You can also add 3 to 4 grams of dried Lemon Balm leaf tea to the mix in order to add anti-anxiety and relaxative properties to it, it'll also help clean up the bodyload and reduce come up intensity while providing more of a positive experience and while maintaining the mystical and higher states and overall benefits. You can also check out Psilohuasca, mixing mushrooms with Harmalas/Rue/Caapi, in order to have an Aya experience but using Psilocin instead of the DMT, it's still Ayahuasca, still an Ayahuasca experience, just some slight differences in receptor binding between Psilocin and DMT but they both take me to the same territory, and it's the Harmalas that makes it Aya. Of course there's also Pharmahuasca, "Vaporhuasca", Changa, perhaps "Nasalhuasca" or what not if that's doable (which i'm sure it is), you definitely don't have to go anywhere to work with this medicine, you just need the plants/compounds. And aside from Lemon Balm, there's a wide, wide variety of different potential admixture plants one can add to Aya or any of the combinations, or even that can be added to mushrooms themselves or other Psychedelics, in order to "flavor" the effects/experience in different ways or to reduce certain side-effects or to add other benefits to the mix.

Fantastic information. Thank you for sharing that. I'm researching this as I write this!

 

[EastTNBill]

As has been said, its the Harmalas and the DMT together that are "the force and the light". This is a sacred combination that will heal you from within if you allow it to.

Perspective is key. There is more than one life, I know this both from psychedelics as well as multiple spiritual traditions, but our problems on a psyche level will go with us so there is really no escape. The only option is gently doing the work on oneself and gradually overcoming the issues here while we have this opportunity. Making use of our life to help ourselves and others.

Bring your meditative skills into the experience working with these tools and you will overcome although it will be difficult at times but this is the path.

So well said. Perspective and "Set and Setting" are critical, I've learned. I'll research "Harmalas and the DMT together are 'the force and light'". Thank you for sharing this with me. Thank you, truly!