• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

NEEDED: People with sound knowledge of chemistry to help with extraction issues

Migrated topic.
stationdragon

stationdragon

Rising Star
Ok, so I've been having some unexpected problems with extracting from MHRB lately.

The method I used is detailed in another recent post you will find in the STB section.
The final result of my recent extraction attempts has been a sloppy, jelly-like (jello) white substance which dissolves to nothing on the filter paper, just a useless thin yellow film.
The only cause I could imagine for this was the containers I was using, perhaps they had some residue left behind which interfered with the development of crystals. So I bought some glass mason jars and tried the same process and I have unfortunately ended up with the same result.
I read that if this happens you should evaporate your naphtha by around half and refreeze so I did this and it's done the same thing. I also read that if you blow onto the naphtha and you see white swirls appear in the clear liquid then the DMT is concentrated enough in the naphtha. So I tried this and it worked.
The jars go very cloudy and after some time the fluffy chunks start to appear, and a film develops on the bottom of the jar. But no round crystal formations. I'm very confused.
So, just to say, I use MHRB that I grind to powder myself and pure lye granules. I use local tap water (this definitely contains fluoride and other contaminants). I also use pure salt and in previous extractions I've used zippo premium lighter fuel and I'm currently using coleman camping fuel.
Coleman is listed as:


This product contains:
*Cyclohexane, CAS # 110-82-7, OSHA-300 ppm, ACGIH-300 ppm
*Nonane, CAS # 111-84-2, ACGIH-200 ppm
*Octane, CAS # 111-65-9, OSHA-400 ppm, ACGIH-300 ppm
*Heptane, CAS # 142-82-5, OSHA-500 ppm, ACGIH-400 ppm
*Pentane, CAS # 109-66-0, OSHA-1000 ppm, ACGIH-600 ppm

And zippo premium:

Pentane, CAS# 109-66-0, NIOSH TWA 120ppm, ACGIH TWA 600ppm.
Heptane, CAS# 142-82-5, OSHA TWA: 500ppm, ACGIH TWA 400ppm.
Octane, CAS# 111-65-9, OSHA TWA: 500ppm, ACGIH TWA 375ppm.
Nonane, CAS# 111-84-2, ACGIH-200ppm.

My last zippo extraction produced the sloppy white goo, I had used zippo previously with a stock of bark I had and all had gone well with good yields up until that extraction.
Now I have a new stock of bark and am using coleman fuel and the results are very unfortunate.
I haven't changed my recipe at all.
What do you think of the ratio's?

bark 50g
water 750ml
salt 50g
lye 75g
naphtha 50ml per pull - usually 4 pull but tried 6 this time, 6th was the sloppiest extraction.

What do you guys think would happen if I evaporated one of these instead of freeze precip? And I'm really, really curious as to what is happening and why.
I read somewhere maybe the sloppy stuff is colloidal DMT crystals but I have no idea what this means. Is this possible? What does that mean? What would cause it to happen in the first place? How do I avoid it? And can it be fixed once they have developed?
Just the few questions that are racing around my head right now.

I'm going to leave it there but if you can think of any factors, any at all that may help figure out this problem then please get involved.
I'm sorry if this all seems very repetitive but I just need to get to the bottom of this cuz I'm totally stumped and losing a lot of money, plus we need a thread that helps people with this in the future because there's practically nothing out there to help. I've definitely received no solid answers.
To add to it some people seem happy with coleman in the UK, I just need to move back to zippo and see what results I get I think. As it stands I have a long and tedious process of elimination ahead of me and very little money to do it with but I'm not giving up. Despite feeling like I would in the last few days.
Thanks for you interest
 
Perhaps you missed the point.
The yield is unforgiving. Out of 200g of MHRB I got less than 100mg of a minutely thin orange film on the filter paper.
Though I appreciate your response
 
Sorry to say it, station, but it sounds like your bark is bunk.

Your method is fine, Colemans and Zippo get a bad rep for being a little impure, but they should work OK.
The only thing you've changed is your bark and your results sound similar to others who have been given a batch with no actives. (it's happening more and more these days) :cry:
Try some new bark and pray that it's root (and not trunk or some other species...) :thumb_up:
 
trunk bark would yield more than that, i should think.

i would go ahead and try and evap it. i get the distinct impression the gremlin lies somwhere around the freeze precip/filter stages (particularly "which dissolves to nothing on the filter paper" ) if there is still a slight amount of solvent, it might dissolve the product as it warms, leeching the product through filter, perhaps?

if you don't get anything from the evap, then you know either something went horribly wrong in the extraction process (Which seems doubtful, reading the method you mentioned in the previous thread), or, as orion said, you need to try a zinc reduction.

if not that then it probably is bunk bark. won't hurt to try and evap, though.
 
stationdragon said:
Perhaps you missed the point.
The yield is unforgiving. Out of 200g of MHRB I got less than 100mg of a minutely thin orange film on the filter paper.
Though I appreciate your response
Click to expand...
But in your first post you write "bark 50g"

Anyway, do you remember what you bought? was it mimosa hostilis root bark or trunk bark? Also, since you got whole pieces, how did these compare visually to mimosa hostilis root bark pictures?

Since your technique/protocol description doesn't have anything too suspicious and since is a quite foolproof STB with salt, I'd agree with cyb that you may have bunk material, maybe not even mhrb.
 
Hey guys,
thanks for all your replies, I really appreciate the help offered by fellow travelers on this site.
First off can I apologise if I have approached this with an attitude. I have been very unwell throughout all of mushroom season and had to watch people trip over and over again without being able to get involved.
Now I get the ingredients together for this and ended up watching money go down the drain, so I've been a little irritated.
Anyway, I took my tenacity to the extreme and pushed on and it would appear it's all me, I've been missing one important aspect of the extraction process and the importance of it.
Evaporation!
Yeah I feel quite foolish now. I took a very detailed look at many teks and the FAQ on this site and discovered the importance of saturating the naphtha with DMT, how to test when it's ready to freeze etc.
I really feel my bark is ok and my technique was ALMOST perfect but I was just missing that one very important aspect.
Now I just wish I'd evaporated the left over naphtha from the 200g extraction instead of chucking it away. I only did this because I was worried it was contaminated.
I just didn't fully understand the process, despite trying very hard to learn and coming up uninformed. But now I'm confident that this never needs to happen again.
I evaporated one of the jars down to a third and everything changed after a few hours, I was just too quick on the draw and was impatient to get results.
I've decided now to do an evap because I never have before and want to get to grips with that too but also because after all the loses I've suffered I don't want to sacrifice any more DMT so I'm evapping to avoid losing any more to the naphtha. Also I'm expecting after all this messing around I'll probably wind up with goo, if I do it'll be interesting to test it out as I've never encountered it before for a voyage.
Again thanks for all your help and I'll try to keep you updated on this and future extractions.
Also yes I did say 50g in the first post but that was after the initial 200g in HDPE jugs and then I suspected the containers so bought some 1 litre mason jars and did a 50g in that.
Just to clear up any confusion.
Now I'm just waiting for the absolute final results from the 50g. I don't know how long it will take to evaporate the remaining 50ml or so but I'm looking forward to see this develop.
 
Ok, well after hours of leaving the DMT/naphtha solution in a glass baking dish with a fan blowing over it, it has finally dried out.
I got 500mg from the 50g MHRB and that's after losing one of the three jars early on before I understood the problem. I'm very happy with that, no goo either, just a sandy coloured mound.
The only problem is there's still a noticeable smell of naphtha mixed in with the DMT. I can only assume that this is just little pockets of naphtha that simply haven't yet been released so I've got the DMT in a little paper wrap on a metal lid which is placed on the radiator. I also keep opening it up, mixing the DMT, crushing it a little and putting it back just to release any residual naphtha from the mix.
Very happy with the results and I'm highly confident about my next extraction.
I only have 50g of bark left but I will be getting more next weekend and I'll be trying different variables to find the best STB ingredients and technique that work for me.
I definitely won't be using a full evaporation as my main method for obtaining the DMT from the naphtha, I'm quite satisfied with the freeze precip method for now. But at least I've given evaporation a go and it's something I can do again in the future if the circumstances call for it.
I'm not personally going to be in a position for the next few days to try out my new batch of hyperspace tickets but by the beginning of next week I'll be packed and ready for my voyage.

Thanks again for all your help. I hope I can return the favour some day.
Be happy and stay well
 
stationdragon said:
Now I just wish I'd evaporated the left over naphtha from the 200g extraction instead of chucking it away. I only did this because I was worried it was contaminated.
Click to expand...
Just out of curiosity, how did you dispose off of your naphtha???
 
I got lucky.
I asked my neighbour who is redecorating what I can do with discarded solvents. He asked if he could use it but I warned him it may be contaminated with something so he said he could get rid of it for me on some kitty litter and told me I could drop it round, so I did.
I asked him about the process for future reference and he said pour it onto kitty litter in a container and leave it outdoors to evaporate, then throw the litter away with the general waste.
Should help for people who need to get rid of old naphtha and want to remain mindful of the environment.
Wish I'd saved it up now though :/
Still I got my 500mg out of my experiments which I'll be enjoying next week with more to come. Gonna be some wild rides at the station woo woo! ;)
 
Back
Top Bottom