i have both of these pipes. i haven't had the chance to use the bat for spice yet. i was just going to use it for vaping all of my other elements like caapi leaf and changa. But i ended up giving it to my friend for her b-day. I also gave her some spice and she was having a hard time breaking through. So i'm going to get it back from her and add the copper chore boy and do a side by side comparison with my nice yellow mhrb extract.