nigella sativa, kalonji
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jacky
potentiates it seems, and actually has opioid activity of some sort.
thymoquinone is a suspected opioid...but as of yet, I havnt seen any specific chemistry.
the oil can make one nauseous if taken alongside pain medications...at least I have had that reaction.
usually when taking larger doses, of say, a couple tablespoons..
more recently I now only dose around 1/2 tablespoon, and that seems to help.
because of the nausea, I now take the oil at nighttime more than during the day.
its possible with a combination of other herbs/compounds that this oil could help those detoxing/weening from opioids.
and the oil seems to be a better anti tussive than many OTC/prescription anti tussives.
you could mix some in with peanut butter, or other rich food in this case, and a child probably wouldnt have too much trouble consuming it.
I would much rather give this to a child, than say, DXM.
recently my freind caught his teenage son, taking the DXM cough syrup to school with him.
his dad asked why he thought he needed it. and he told his dad, that the cough syrup made him feel funny and witty with the other kids.
obviously not a use intended for the medicine.
it was obvious that his kid had come accustomed to some of the effects of the cough syrup, and I reckon, that the kid stood a chance of becoming habituated to the substance.
so, if menthol and nigella sativa are good anti tussives, about the potency I have read, of codeine or DXM, it might be a great alternative for some familys.
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glen
Id imagine he would be thats sort of who clued me in to some dangerous possibilities. one chemical within it that might be responsible for some of the action doesnt seem to be very oil soluable so you seem to get less in the oil being c/p then you would as a solvent extract. The problem however is that this compound according to jacky seemed quite toxic in animal studies. Some vendors are selling it as i saw recently which I personally think is a VERY dangerous and stupid idea, hence why i did not mention said chemical in this post.
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mitragyna
I'm assuming that chemical is Thymoquinone?
Quote:
Thymoquinone
Researchers at the Kimmel Cancer at Jefferson in Philadelphia have found that thymoquinone, an extract of nigella sativa seed oil, blocked pancreatic cancer cell growth and killed the cells by enhancing the process of programmed cell death, (apoptosis). While the studies are in the early stages, the findings suggest that thymoquinone could eventually have some use as a preventative strategy in patients who have gone through surgery and chemotherapy or in individuals who are at a high risk of developing cancer. [10]
From
Nigella sativa - Wikipedia
Or it could possibly be a glycoside:
Quote:
Chemical Composition - seeds contain 1.5% volatile oil, while 37.5% Non volatile oil. In addition to this Albumen, Sugar, Organic acids, Glucoside Melanthin Metarbin and bitter substances are also found. The Glucoside is toxic in nature, hence the use of Kalonji in large doses and prolonged use might be harmful.
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glen
its the thymoquinone which was extremely toxic.
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mitragyna
Interesting...most of the studies I've read only report beneficial activity. Maybe I'm not reading the right studies .
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teeko
Any more information or reports regarding thymoquinone toxicity? Or any information regarding the isolate at all really.
I see the most agreed upon LD50 is 2.4 g/kg.
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aurea
Not sure on the thymo, altough if it's that toxic, maybe picrilima nitida is a better alternative - I would say so from the pure alkaloids sample I tried a few days ago
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aurea
Nigella Sativa oil is active at 1-3 tablespoons, however the effect of Picrilima nitida pure alkaloids is far superior. The Picrilima indole alkaloids are active at 100-300mg.
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teeko
Nigella Sativa oil?
Its quite nice. But has the potential to make you feel a bit ill if you consume too much. Its got some strong synergy.
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jacky
I started getting interested in picralima nitida awhile ago.
I got my seeds direct from africa.
a person I know did an alkaloid extract awhile back...as did some other chemistry minded folks.
I did try consuming the whole, ground raw seeds.
picralima nitida is one of the most bitter foulest substances on earth that I think I have ever consumed.
I choked down over 20 grams of seeds.
with only minimal effect.
I tried also some of the 80% pure alkaloid extract that was made from the original batch of seeds recieved.
the next day I got a strange rash and thick patch on my forehead that didnt go away for over two weeks.
the thick skin was felt for awhile.
the psyhoactive effect for me was minimal, though active.
it was a light effect everytime I took the seeds, whole, or extracted.
but obviuosly the extract is the more beneficial way to research this plant.
I could never eat enough of the raw seeds, in whole form, to be a viable herb that I could work into my life.
the extract was active...but the effect left me more dizzy, than I was slightly stimulated.
the stimulation did keep me up for awhile.
for all we know we have taken some of the highest doses of this plants alkaloids ever?
I still have a few grams of the isolate alkaloids of picralima nitida. but have had little interest in researching it further.
maybe if someone makes an isolation run on the seeds would be better.
from what I remember, there is "contradictory" agonist/antagonist action both between different alkaloids, and some of the alkaloids have agonist/antagonist activity as well.
I highly doubt though that sophisticated isolation products of this seed will be commercially produced any time soon within the ethnobotanical community.
if there is though, I still think its possible that something interesting might come from this plant. perhaps one of the alkaloids alone has a stronger activity?
now I have never taken ibogaine in any form other than as a trace compound possibly that was in a type of chinese medicinal plant that I had.
I also tried a rootbark of a tabernaemontana species that was supposedly ibogaine containing.
but I have never had very strong reactions to any of these herbs.
so I didnt notice any similarity of iboga to picralima alkaloids...but I know a chemist that extracted the picralima a ways back that commented noticing an "iboga like" stimulation from the picralima extract.
I am much more interested now in nigella sativa oil.
first, the dose of even the seeds is a lot smaller than picralima nitida.
and I dont think that there is much/any antagonist activity with the nigella sativa oil.
I have had some good experience with the oil. a few times with higher doses than felt good.
but I should also say that I am almost always on some kind of prescription opiate.
so maybe picralima nitida might have more beneficial effect for someone without an opiate habit?
for an opiate dependent person, I see that nigella sativa oil might have little effect for some people, and others might get alot out of the supplementation.
for me taking even a few tablespoons of the oil can make the opiate effect seem much stronger.
if thymoquinone is the active opioid in this oil...then its possible that the oil could be concentrated in some way, so doses of the oil could be smaller.
I am sure that thymoquinone is toxic in some way....but I think its obvious that normal and maybe even high doses of the oil have more benefit to offer than any toxic problems.
I did buy a small supply of thymoquinone. but have never consumed any in its isolated form. I think back when I bought it though I had not found any definite info that it was the sole acting opioid compound. its a strange smelling pure compound.
I would much rather just work with the whole oil.
or possibly even the whole seed.
with the seed one who takes alot of nigella might not have to always eat the oil. which can get old. you could have the seeds in bread, not cereal...etc.
I am really interested in your picralima alkaloid experience Aurea! tell us more about it.
my own experience wasnt that great, but it was obvious that the plants seed was psychoactive.
I think tabernaemontana pachysiphon has similiar opioid chemistry as picralima nitida, as do several other t. species.
a chemist who worked with the picralima seeds also extracted some t. pachysiphon plant material that I has as well.
the leaf was hard to extract, and produced much less alkaloid material than the picralima seed.
so people interested in both of those might save money and time if their interests are in higher alkaloid yeilds.
what I would love to find out is the ethnobotany of picralima nitida seeds...I had an easier time sourcing the seed initially than I did finding information about the plants use.
I have been told that they are ground and used in gel caps in africa as a painkiller. no wonder, because the taste is so horrid.
maybe this plant is what you use when you cant afford or have access to opiate painkillers?
or do some people use this plant rather than standard opiates?
most likely I think it is the poor who dont have good medical access though I could be wrong.
I just ordered more nigella sativa oil....I havent had any in months.
its a nice product to have around.
I would do more research with the picralima nitida...but my one seeming allergic dermal reaction wasnt too pleasant. made me wonder if the plant could cause internal hemmorage due to extreme swelling of certian tissues.
the thick skin it cause was about as thick as a finger...a swelling that occurred just below the top layer of skin. I actually...it was about as big around as a fifty cent peice.
it looked rather large. and on my forehead, it looked REALLY large for a few days.
the thickness slowly waned over a couple weeks time.
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Aurea
Jacky, I think I had some of that same chemist-isolated P. nitida (was it 70% or 80%?) you had a year or two ago too, and while it did nothing bad, thank goodness, it also had no good effects that I could notice.
The Picralima nitida alkaloids I spoke of that did have good effect for myself and some others that tested is from a diff source altogether and is actually of a 98% purity.
Some got effect at as little as 80 mg, while the more tolerant were going up to 300-400 mg with good effect. There was zero dizziness, zero nausea, no rashes, etc.
My next project with it is seeing how it is as a potentiator as well.
Also vaporizing the 98% is on the agenda.
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jacky
apparently the oil has anti-tussive effects similiar in potency to codeine...but then so does menthol(which is a kappa opioid agonist)
there is an analgesic effect I am sure of, plenty of information regarding that activity...but I have always taken it in the presence of opiates, as a potentiator, rather than a sole active inebriant.
what I have noticed is that in the presense of opiates, the nigella sative oil seems to make the effects stronger, sometimes to the point of being too potent, where dysphoria takes over and from euphoria.
so you might want to tread somewhat carefully with this oil, the most I can tolerate eating is about a 1/4 cup.
sources vary, but there are alot of places selling it, its just not in stock at alot of places all the time.
the oil was praised by Mohammad as being a future source of medicinal cures.
I believe that it would be good in conjunction with chaste tree for kicking a cold/flu's ass.
being on opiates pretty much constantly though, I dont experience colds or flus to often, so I really havnt tested this on myself.
a few reports from other people using chaste tree during a fever/cold leads me to believe that some of these subtle organic opioid agonists could have alot of benefit for some people.
