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no teacher no method?

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lsrvnt

lsrvnt

Rising Star
We lack the cultural knowledge that perhaps a shipibo healer may have, however at the same time we have a lack of dogma and tradition that allows us to form and create our own methods and rituals. dose anyone think this is appropriate?

Sometimes I worry about the people around me who share my interests in these plants because they are the people I love and care about most. my partner, my friends, my family. My teacher once told me that even shamans from the amazon loose people to the plants. they can not even with all of their training bring everyone through 100 percent.

this to me was a great warning that I may loose what I love most through sharing this experience or providing it for others. My partner experienced vaporized dmt alongside me at the time and It has been such a huge guiding experience for both of us solidly helping us to navigate our own imagination and inspiring a lot of artworks (they are also a very talented artist). I love them so much that the idea that I could have any responsibility for hurting them in some way really frightens me yet they are very very interested in pursuing the plants as am I for the same reasons. I am confronted with the reality that we must develop our own method and that perhaps the desire to go to the amazon to consume the plant directly from the source is misguided...

or not. many tribes really have vast amounts of knowledge stretching back tens of thousands of years. what do people think about pursuing these plants without any real shamanic training?
 
I wouldnt say I am a expert by any means. But the nature of this stuff can be EXTREMELY rewarding but we all have to realize there are some risks involved. I think if there wasn't well everyone would be doing it. You have to be brave to take these substances especially in high doses! However we all want to minimize those risks. Now yes these shamans have training and experience that goes back a LONG WAY! But at the same time we are all unique and sometimes tailoring the ritual to you is hugely beneficial.

When I first got started with mushrooms I was really drawn to the Mazatec usage and culture. I mean really how could you not be? And there are certain pieces of their ritual that I follow but not all. I use copal incense to purify/bless the mushrooms but this is a point that while I am doing this I talk to them. I tell them exactly what my intentions are and what I want to focus and work on during that day. And I always ask them to be gentle 😁 Most of the time i also will take some cacao beans and burry them outside the house at the end of the trip. It is one of the ways of saying thank you. Sometimes i will make a cacao drink. This increases the visual aspect for sure but they also have said the "little saints" like the cacao. SOMETIMES if i really plan to go deep i will even make up a mix of tobacco and pickling lime wich they did for protection. However i dont follow ALL their rules i dont set up a alter with pictures of mother mary and other saints. Sometimes i like to get up and go outside. Wich is something they didnt really do. as far as i know your supposed to stay in the house until the experience is over.

Anyway this is just what I do. I use their knowledge as a FOUNDATION but i build my own ritual on top of that foundation. To me that's the best you can do. Like i said there are some risks in taking these substances and some of that i dont think we will ever be able to completely avoid. But we just gota do the best we can to minimize that.
 
What’s to say you don’t have the culture and experience inside you already? What’s to say you weren’t part of these tribes in past lives, with the knowledge buried deep inside.

I’m a proponent of being your own shaman. You can learn from others that have more knowledge than you, but you don’t need them for your quest.

And to respond to the tens of thousands of years of knowledge, we have the internet now. You have to understand that you have gained the insight it may have taken years to accomplish in the jungle thousands of years ago. All in a few days, months, ect. Don’t underestimate yourself and your abilities. We all contain the power to create our own universe.

As Primus said; “To defy the laws of tradition, is a crusade only of the brave”
 
There's different ways to look at this topic...
On the one hand I believe it's hard to substitute the knowledge that some of these tribes have
In my opinion it's not merely something that can be learned like any other information via the Internet. I believe it's a skill that is passed on in person and some of these cultures are built around these experiences, so having them fits seemlessly into the individuals reality. If you grow up in the west, you kind of have to find your own frame of reality to integrate these experiences into. We can see many efforts made today by modern psychedelic culture to create a framework indigenous to our culture. But we are not there yet, and it might take a while... There's of course something to say about finding your own way, but if we look at history it's likely that many great skills have been passed on from east to west snd the lther way around. No need to reinvent the wheel.

The other aspect to mention is... Yes these substances have their risks. While growing into this culture, mostly also through reading here on the Nexus, for a long time I liked to believe that doing psychedelics should be easy. That if you just are brave enough to face your fears there's no reason not to indulge. Since then I changed my mind quite a lot... Sure there are tons of people who seem to use these substances without problems and even seem to benefit from them. But all of us who've been in this game for a while have seen those who got send down a spiral of pain and distortion, and I've certainly experienced some of it myself to a certain extent. For now my time with these teachers is over, but if I ever get the calling again I will strongly reconsider finding a teacher of a long lineage of medicine man and learning their ways.

These plants are incredibly powerful tools, and what ever anybody says, we have no clue what we are dealing with. And this is not exlusive to these plants, It's the same with all true methods of spiritual development. They dont come without a risk.

The best advice that I can give is to follow your intuition... As long as there is a true calling, the plant will probably welcome you and show you what you need to see. There might come a time though, when calling is replaced by habit, or maybe we've taken it as part of our identity and don't question anymore. That's when we have to be careful.
 
IMO its up to the person and they’re own veiw on spirituality and really shamans May have experience in their own way with this stuff but they also lack knowledge that may be beneficial to others. Yes they “travel” a lot and have they’re own methods for integrating the knowledge but you also don’t here many shamans approach the experiences in any way pertaining to modern science such as psychology, neurology, and things like physics and quantum mechanics which is definitely the way I interpret my experiences with consciousness and spirituality somewhat intertwined. So I guess what I’m trying to say is no I don’t think you need shamanic training to let someone you know try dmt. You just need to have an understanding of how deep the rabbit hole can go and make sure your not allowing someone who clearly has no deep thought processes or already has some wild pre conceived notions that would lead them to a mental breakdown try such powerful substances. But like I said. It just depends on the circumstances
 
I agree with Achilles. This is what I believe. Everyone needs to find their own relationship with source, spirit, god, whatever you want to label it. It’s there and it’s up to you to connect back to it. A shaman can show you this, but you don’t need him to. Spirit is there and it’s ultimately up to the individual and their will.
 
FranLover said:
You must be teacher and student. The method is not hidden, but in plain sight.
Click to expand...
and that its a different (yet similar) experience to go on a 30 day trip in a forest on the other side of the world and drink aya - find a place where they don't just give u a cup, its a experience, we're all aware here, you take as much as you decide, and see what happens.

and its a different thing when u grow your own and go where you go with it, i'm sure both paths are part of the same journey of having come to
now
 
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