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Noman Tek Revisions

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Noman

Noman

Rising Star
Senior Member
OG Pioneer
Senior member Chemical engineer
Hi all Now that my tek has been out there for awhile I'm going to start working on some variations to add as a sort of post script and I'd appreciate any suggestions y'all might be able to give me.

Heres what I'm thinking:
- Get rid of that goddamn ammonia wash. My friend has never had trouble with it but it seems to cause problems for at least half the people that do it. I'll change it to a wash of the NP with a weak basic solution.
- Note that if pre-powdered bark is being used, 1.5 - 2X of the water called for will be required.
- Add that using heat for the last pull will increase yield. I left that out of the original for the sake of simplicity, but it probably should be mentioned.
- Go into more detail about the freeze precip. When I wrote the tek, commonly available bark was of much higher quality. Now a partial evap is sometimes necessary to get the solution concentrated enough to precip.

The "snow globes" line puts everyone's expectations too high.

Anything else?
 
swim has had good luck with your tek noman... shes found the final freeze precip needs to get down to about 25 - 50ml before the magic falls out. Can a sodium carbonate + water wash be recommended to help purify the crystals even further?
 
i have found that rolling my jug on the floor ( saw it in a mesc extract video) slowly works better than tipping back and forth. gets it nice and mixed up and i haven't had an emulsion yet. also have not had any probs with amonia wash, but is willing to try new stuff
 
i was talking about the final lighter fluid + dissolved dmt solution and then water + sodium carbonate being added. is sodium carbonate inferior to the others you mentioned syzy?
 
SyZyGyPSy said:
Also, Noman, I'm curoious what kind of basic soln you're thinking the np is best washed with? Perhaps we should start another thread on washing, I know it's been discussed before but never with any clear resolution. Swim is very much interested in hearing what others have to say on this matter... he's kinda split between sodium bicarbonate, calcium carbonate, and ammonia. He uses ammo to wash his np these daze and hasn't tried the other two, but he's heard good things aboot them. He feels like the ammo does what he wants it to, but is curious why no one else uses it and wonders if there's something he doesn't know?
Click to expand...

Actually my friend has never done a N/P wash with MHRB - only chaliponga and cactus and he just used a splash of amm for that. He'll be doing some testing for the sake of this thread and he'll run side by sides with commonly available bases. Someone on another forum told me that salt was the way to go so I'll have him throw that in there too.
 
Swim knows nothing, but would like to share one TID BIT,... in the noman tek .... once you add NaOH to water, if you pause ... let it cool down then proceed... it makes whiter spice,... but not as strong in my humble opinion... so if you add bark faster.. while naoh is reacting to water and heating up ... it makes a yellower spice... a bit stronger... but... better yet......... do the whole tech in a hot water bath, and it finishes almost peanutbuttery but VERY VERY STRONGER spice- it even smells more,.. it tends to leave a more oilier residue but seems to break thru on more people then the fancy looking pure white stuff did.......... my 2 cents and remember i know nothing and gave the disclaimer...........
 
Noman said:
- Note that if pre-powdered bark is being used, 1.5 - 2X of the water called for will be required.

- Add that using heat for the last pull will increase yield. I left that out of the original for the sake of simplicity, but it probably should be mentioned.
Click to expand...
Changes to the amount of naoh to go along with the increase in water?

Heat the solvent, or heat the entire process?
 
I think also the amounts of pulls being done should be changed. Swim. is been busy for a while now doing 2x 1 kilo extractions, and now he's doing I think is his 10th pull(lost count), and the magick is still comming.:shock: The last one he left for 3 day's, and yet again 2.5 gram came out. I'd say keep on pulling untill really there is nothing comming anymore. And then still nobody should throw anything away, because I suspect that even then there is some magick left in it.:p
 
mitch said:
Noman said:
- Note that if pre-powdered bark is being used, 1.5 - 2X of the water called for will be required.

- Add that using heat for the last pull will increase yield. I left that out of the original for the sake of simplicity, but it probably should be mentioned.
Click to expand...
Changes to the amount of naoh to go along with the increase in water?

Heat the solvent, or heat the entire process?
Click to expand...

Swim would really like to know the answer on this one. It has been a few days or so, but he didn't get this information. He already figured out that there wasn't enough liquid. Swim went by this tek almost exactly except he used powdered bark. It turned out very, very thick goo. It was thicker than oil but not quite as thick as tar.

When trying to address it logically he thought, "I'm certain this stuff needs to be thinner. It's not giving up much of anything right now. I definitely need to add more water." Then he thought, "If I add more water, then it would be more diluted and the PH would go lower towards that of the water. But if I add lye/water just as I did initially, then both mixtures should have the same PH so the PH should remain."

This is the logic Swim used. In the end, he went w/ a little under a gram of lye per 15 milliliters of water and mixed them together and let the lye dissolve in the water and added that to the goo.

Was this bad logic? Swim doesn't have anything to measure PH with so doesn't know for sure.
 
^^ If you add more water, it should be the same lye ratio mix you used to start with. Don't just add water

For pre-powdered bark-Using 50mg bark batches, i had separation issues using the liquid amounts in the tek, I found that about 25% more water/lye solution seemed to solve the issue, and the solvent separated easily.
 
XENONSION said:
^^ If you add more water, it should be the same lye ratio mix you used to start with. Don't just add water

For pre-powdered bark-Using 50mg bark batches, i had separation issues using the liquid amounts in the tek, I found that about 25% more water/lye solution seemed to solve the issue, and the solvent separated easily.
Click to expand...

Swim hasn't had any separation problems at all. In fact, it all seems to separate within 10 to 30 seconds. How long do you actually have to wait after it separates before taking the naptha out? Swim has gone by the tek and agitated every 10 to 15 minutes for about an hour before taking the naptha out. Then the last couple he just left it in with occasional agitation for a day or two.
 
How should my friend agitate the solution? Shake? Propably not because of emulsion. Stirring maybe?

My friend put the end of the jar on top, but the two layers stayed seperated. There's no mixing whatsoever. That doesn't seem to be right...

He's put in 100g of powdered bark, 2.25l of Water ~130g lye and 100ml naphta...
 
Thanks Noman - I've been using your tek - but I haven't got great results - I think the problem is my freezer, or rather the small freezer compartmnt in my fridge. Out of 100g of Mimosa I've only yielded about 60mg of whitish then yellowish spice. I'm going to try evapping it down, and see what's left. - Also I had to use Ronsonol Lighter fluid, then Newport lighter fluid (as I'm in the UK)
I've heard Toluene is good but that too is hard to find. I'd appreciate it if you could add some None-US common sources of lighter fuel or suitable NP

Also, just to echo - what should I do for the wash? - I have ammonia but with such a small amount of spice I don't want to lose it

Thanks
 
Thanks obliguhl

I've just read toluene is a serious carcinogen - So DONT use that unless you like cancer.

I read somewhere that "winsor newton white spirit" was a good one to use as an NP alternative to Naptha can anyone confirm this?
 
Noman said:
--snip--

- Note that if pre-powdered bark is being used, 1.5 - 2X of the water called for will be required. - Add that using heat for the last pull will increase yield. I left that out of the original for the sake of simplicity, but it probably should be mentioned. - Go into more detail about the freeze precip. When I wrote the tek, commonly available bark was of much higher quality. Now a partial evap is sometimes necessary to get the solution concentrated enough to precip. The "snow globes" line puts everyone's expectations too high. Anything else?
Click to expand...
I suggest that you must add the fridge/freezer/coutnertop/room temperature freeze precipitation Tek.

For SWIM it gives much bigger scintillating crystals that are easier to work with and scrape out than tiny little powdery slivers, the ones that stick to the side of the glass. Here is WarrenSaged's freeze precipitation method.

If you'd like larger crystals, instead of a bunch of smaller shards, once the jars are moved to the freezer, leave them in there for only like 12 hours or so. Then move them back to the fridge for an hour, maybe an hour & a half (you'll need to watch this process very closely, too be sure your not re-dissolving all of your spice!). Then out, on to the counter top for 30 minutes and back into the fridge for an hour or so, then back to the freezer for 4-to-6 hours and back to the fridge, etc...etc...
Repeat these steps, freezer > fridge > room temp > fridge > freezer > fridge > room temp > fridge > freezer, over & over a number of times and your tiny, shard-like crystals will start to form larger & larger crystals!!
Do not swirl the Naptha, or move the jar around too much!!
When the smaller shards first start to bond to a larger crystal, until they have been warmed & cooled a few times, it is very easy for them to be "knocked off" by swirling the liquid around too much or something similar.
It is important to not disturb the crystal formations while moving the jar!!

This works because as the Naptha warms up slowly, little by little, the smaller crystals will "melt" back into the solvent but the bigger crystals take much longer to fully dissolve.
So as the solvent is then cooled back down to freezing temps, the DMT is squeezed back out and the new, smaller shards will cling to the bigger, already formed crystals and grow onto them, causing large, beautiful crystals!! Of course you have to be patient enough to repeat this process a few times a day (and/or night) for a few weeks.
This technique does take some time, but is worth it!! This method of freeze precip also gets pretty much all of the alkaloids out of the Naptha, like evaporating does. Warming & cooling over & over will squeezed out more of the spice than just freezing it one time & filtering!!

When I put my 3 jars of alka-loaded Naptha in the freezer for precipitation, I usually choose one jar to stay in and grow large crystals. The other two are removed after 1 to 2 days, and the spice is filtered out, but the third jar goes through the above process to grow some larger crystals that I keep for special occasions like the S.H.E., etc...
It amazes me, the beautiful fractal formations that grow simply from modifying the temp of the solvent!!

If you are doing a re-crystallization, this can go much, much quicker. 69ron had some good advice there!! As a general rule, I myself try to leave the alka-loaded Naptha in the freezer as long as I can. This usually amounts to 24-to-48 hours for the first two jars anyway!!

Good luck!!
WS
Click to expand...


And maybe add in a re-xtallization step to filter out the plant oils from flouroescent yellow spice :!:
 
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