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novel cacti species of interest (turbinicarpus)

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entheogenic-gnosis

Rising Star
Turbinicarpus pseudomacrochele var. Krainzianus
Mescaline 2.48%

Turbinicarpus schmeidickeanus spp. Schwarzii
Mescaline 1.26%
250-500mgs of total alkaloid fraction per 100g fresh plant material

This information was derived from "cactus chemistry by species - K. Trout and friends"
PDF files of this publication, as well as many other publications, are available here:

These two cactus species caught my eye.

By all means they should both be suitable as entheogens, yet these two species are never mentioned by most.

Has anybody had any personal experiance regarding the cultivation or Entheogenic consumption of these two species? Any information would be much appreciated, this is all for research purposes of coarse, however as a cactus collector I would love to add these two novel species to my collection, there are no legal restrictions regarding these species (as far as I can tell) however finding the specific species has proven to be quite the task...

(The multiple Latin names causes confusion when looking to purchase these species online, you will find the correct Latin names in the wrong order, or there will be two correct Latin names and the third is something different...while browsing the web I was very specific in my nomenclature regarding the very specific species I was seeking, yet such specificity could not be found on the other end, even when it comes to research regarding these species things become difficult, with enough effort I'm sure I could obtain specimens for my collection, and could locate the proper research information, but that's not what this thread is about... )

Any information, anecdotes or comments would be appreciated, as I have just begun my research involving these cacti and know very little at the present moment.

Thanks,

-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis said:
Turbinicarpus pseudomacrochele var. Krainzianus
Mescaline 2.48%

Turbinicarpus schmeidickeanus spp. Schwarzii
Mescaline 1.26%
250-500mgs of total alkaloid fraction per 100g fresh plant material
Click to expand...

It's 2.48% of total alkaloid which is 0.25-0.5% of fresh plant material. So, in the best case scenario, mescaline is 0.0124% of fresh material.
 
entheogenic-gnosis said:
Turbinicarpus pseudomacrochele var. Krainzianus
Mescaline 2.48%

Turbinicarpus schmeidickeanus spp. Schwarzii
Mescaline 1.26%
250-500mgs of total alkaloid fraction per 100g fresh plant material
Click to expand...

It's 2.48% of total alkaloid which is 0.25-0.5% of fresh plant material. So, in the best case scenario, mescaline is 0.0124% of fresh material.
 
Hmmm...the way it was written was very misleading.

Though That explains the absence of chatter in the psychedelic community regarding these species...

Thanks,

-eg
 
Other than mescaline there are quite a few phenethylamine compounds present...

These are rare in the wild from what I've read, but are easy to grow from seed, provided that you can find seeds for the very specific variety you are seeking...I've seen some live cacti offered here and there, but I have no way to be certain they are the exact variety I'm looking for...

I still want to add these two species to my collection...

Turbinicarpus pseudomacrochele var. krainzianus (Frank) Glass & Foster
Reported chemistry:
Phenethylamine (1.12% [± 0.13] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Tyramine (0.98% [± 0.18] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
N-Methyltyramine (Trace detected)
Hordenine (49.60% [± 0.55] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Mescaline (2.48% [± 0.19] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
N-Methylmescaline (3.27% [± 0.09] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids/ 100 gm of fresh plant)
N,N-Dimethylmescaline (2.89% [± 0.15] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids/ 100 gm of fresh plant)
O-Methylanhalidine (0.77% [± 0.04] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids/ 100 gm of fresh plant)
Anhalinine (29.24% [± 0.04] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Anhalonidine (2.44% [± 0.13] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Pellotine (0.36% [± 0.08] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Štarha et al. 1999

-trouts notes
Click to expand...

Could somebody please explain exactly what is meant here?
mescaline (2.48% [± 0.19] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Click to expand...

------

Also one must keep This in mind:
Turbinicarpus pseudomacrochele (Backeberg) F.Buxbaum & Backeberg

Reported chemistry:

Hordenine (Sole alkaloid. 1-10 mg of total alkaloids/ 100 gm.
fresh.) Bruhn & Bruhn 1973
-trouts notes
Click to expand...
It's very important that it's the "krainzianus" variety...

-------

Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus var. schwarzii (Shurly) Glass & Foster [Plant name may be invalid?]

Reported chemistry:

Phenethylamine (1.07% [± 0.42] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Tyramine (2.92% [± 0.25] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
N-Methyltyramine (Trace detected)
Hordenine (48.81% [± 2.72] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Mescaline (1.26% [± 0.21] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
N-Methylmescaline (0.98% [± 0.24] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm fresh)
N,N-Dimethylmescaline (Trace detected)
O-Methylanhalidine (2.82% [± 0.41] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Anhalinine (39.57% [± 1.14] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Anhalonidine (0.52% [± 0.11] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Pellotine (0.41% [± 0.11] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Štarha et al. 1999

Turbinicarpus – Trout's Notes
Click to expand...

-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis said:
Could somebody please explain exactly what is meant here?
mescaline (2.48% [± 0.19] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)

-eg
Click to expand...

To me this means that the average was anywhere from 250-500mg of full spectrum extract per 100g of fresh plant material. Of that 250-500mg of extract, only 2.48 percent would be mescaline. So there would be anywhere from 6.2-12.4mg of mescaline per 100g of fresh plant.
Click to expand...
 
Gone-and-Back said:
entheogenic-gnosis said:
Could somebody please explain exactly what is meant here?
mescaline (2.48% [± 0.19] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)

-eg
Click to expand...

To me this means that the average was anywhere from 250-500mg of full spectrum extract per 100g of fresh plant material. Of that 250-500mg of extract, only 2.48 percent would be mescaline. So there would be anywhere from 6.2-12.4mg of mescaline per 100g of fresh plant.
Click to expand...

Bummer, that's what I thought.

My wishful thinking caused me to hold the notion that out of the total alkaloids from 100g fresh material, 200-500mgs would be mescaline...though part of me knew this could not be correct ...bummer.

6-12mgs mescaline per 100g fresh plant really doesn't seem worth it...Though you would be receiving 200-500mgs of mixed phenethylamines, and this may still be enough to elicit psychedelia.

I wish mescaline was more like the 2,5-dimethoxy-4-substituted-phenethylamines, which are active at 10-30mgs...as compared to 300-800mgs mescaline...

-eg
Click to expand...
 
Heh, I bought a Turbinicarpus polaskii today, partly from this thread inspiring me but also because the little thing was so cute and beautiful.

You'd need hundreds - if not thousands - of the poor, tiny things mentioned in the OP to get even a single dose of mesc. That said, they seem to flower when really small - and my specimen appears to have come with seeds attached. So for those of you who can't get hold of trichs or lophs there's sure to be a way.
 
Mescaline is a difficult compound in this sense, it's not produced in large quantities by any plant, yet it requires one of the highest doses in psychedelic compounds, 300-800mgs orally, this is a single persons dose...

I even looked into similar natural compounds like Macromerine and nor-macromerine, but again, same deal roughly, these compounds don't occur in large quantities in the plant world and require large doses...

...Which furthers my argument that we need to get all the skilled chemists possible enthusiastic about producing these beautiful compounds.

I could not find a chemical analysis of Turbinicarpus polaskii in trouts notes ( link below)

archive.org

Cactus Chemistry By Species 2014 Light : Keeper Trout : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

A summary of the published analytical accounts involving the cactus species. Photograph-free version for ease of use in research.
archive.org

These are fascinating little cacti, I got distracted when when of my trichocereus stalks turned to liquid and I had to run an extract on the useable cactus matter, I also had 5 pups to let heal and replant...regardless, I was distracted from my plans of obtaining a sample of these cacti.

-eg
 
Turbinicarpus pseudomacrochele var. krainzianus (Frank) Glass & Foster
Reported chemistry:
Phenethylamine (1.12% [± 0.13] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Tyramine (0.98% [± 0.18] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
N-Methyltyramine (Trace detected)
Hordenine (49.60% [± 0.55] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Mescaline (2.48% [± 0.19] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
N-Methylmescaline (3.27% [± 0.09] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids/ 100 gm of fresh plant)
N,N-Dimethylmescaline (2.89% [± 0.15] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids/ 100 gm of fresh plant)
O-Methylanhalidine (0.77% [± 0.04] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids/ 100 gm of fresh plant)
Anhalinine (29.24% [± 0.04] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Anhalonidine (2.44% [± 0.13] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Pellotine (0.36% [± 0.08] of total alkaloid fraction of 250-500 mg total alkaloids per 100 gm of fresh plant)
Štarha et al. 1999
Click to expand...

Looks like a total alkaloid extract would be mostly Hordenine (49.60%), and Anhalinine (29.24%), then N-Methylmescaline (3.27%) then Mescaline (2.48%), then Anhalonidine and so on...

6-12mgs mescaline per 100g fresh plant matter = 60-120mgs per kilogram of fresh plant matter, 60-120mgs is not even a single person dose...

Though on the plus side, it's fresh plant matter, which is heavy, so, what does 100g fresh cacti look like? A kilo? ...I'm still thinking it's not a viable source of mescaline, though the total alkaloid extract may still be psychoactive in some sense.

-eg
 
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