Nutmeg + HBWR

[mauve]

so the first time I did this I consumed 2 whole nutmegs with a hot water decoction of black pepper, 2 hours later consumed 5 seeds.

this was easily as visual as 2 hits of LSD. very very very intense, come-up was rough but I fell into a state of ecstacy with many insights that has completely shifted the the past few weeks to be extremely positive

now nutmeg causes minor visual effects for me at that dose. brightening of colors, mad tracers, afterimages, fast-smooth mild breathing and drifting, hypnagogia, a subtle strobing of simple and faint geometry etc

it feels like the FAAH enzyme inhibition mediated by the nutmeg causes such a dramatic sensitization of the 5-HT2A receptor--stronger than cannabis in my experience.

anyway I consider 2 nutmegs and 5 HBWR seeds independently to be noticeable yet not huge in effects.

this was huge, definitely a ++++ on shulgins rating scale.

Now I use berberine and black pepper tea when activating the nutmeg and it is more effective.

anyway..

 

[ABe©eDarian]

Interesting.

I never wanted to eat a whole lot of nutmeg but I was once curious enough to eat a few gel caps full and I found it to affect me moreso the next day like the onset was delayed. I found it to be a nice buzz that had me in a great energetic mood but I never wanted to consume more of it.

I like it in eggnog.

HBWR seeds I acquired once in 2004 when I believe I consumed 10 of them. Nothing really happened and I thought I must have gotten old degraded seeds from the vendor I bought them from.

Heavenly Blue Morning Glory seeds I used to good effect a few times by cold water extracting the seeds. It's not something I feel the need to do again while having access to LSD though.

Glad to hear the combo treated you well.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

How does the HBWR shape up if you just pre-dose with the black pepper, I wonder?

That said, I've found nutmeg tincture to be a great pre-dose enhancer for shrooms, so why not?

 

[Thierr7]

so the first time I did this I consumed 2 whole nutmegs with a hot water decoction of black pepper, 2 hours later consumed 5 seeds.

this was easily as visual as 2 hits of LSD. very very very intense, come-up was rough but I fell into a state of ecstacy with many insights that has completely shifted the the past few weeks to be extremely positive

now nutmeg causes minor visual effects for me at that dose. brightening of colors, mad tracers, afterimages, fast-smooth mild breathing and drifting, hypnagogia, a subtle strobing of simple and faint geometry etc

it feels like the FAAH enzyme inhibition mediated by the nutmeg causes such a dramatic sensitization of the 5-HT2A receptor--stronger than cannabis in my experience.

anyway I consider 2 nutmegs and 5 HBWR seeds independently to be noticeable yet not huge in effects.

this was huge, definitely a ++++ on shulgins rating scale.

Now I use berberine and black pepper tea when activating the nutmeg and it is more effective.

anyway..

Hi and thanks for your post ! Did you take the 5 seeds without any extraction ?

I did HBWR several times and it never felt the same ! I think it's kind of the same for everything but it applies especially when it comes to LSA ...

Last week i had 5 seeds and for the first time , i really tripped nicely ( even if the first two hours were heavy on my stomach ) Before that , i had rather not so interesting experiences except for once when i felt like it was "curing" my higher self !

A few months ago , i had 10 seeds and felt sick and very tired ;-((

Anyway , the funny thing is , i had these 5 seeds left in a drawer and didn't think much abt it after the bad trip on 10 seeds but last week i had this kind of intuition : " it seems a good day to do the last 5 seeds today " Seems like i was right , I had a great time , it felt a bit like on a low dose of acid but not much visual until i smoked a joint of hash in the evening and the taste of it felt so good ! I then kept tripping for hours but with visuals ...

I'd like to do extraction but I'm such a loosie chemist , lol ...

Love to all and be safe !

 

[Transform]

Hi and thanks for your post ! Did you take the 5 seeds without any extraction ?

I did HBWR several times and it never felt the same ! I think it's kind of the same for everything but it applies especially when it comes to LSA ...

Last week i had 5 seeds and for the first time , i really tripped nicely ( even if the first two hours were heavy on my stomach ) Before that , i had rather not so interesting experiences except for once when i felt like it was "curing" my higher self !

A few months ago , i had 10 seeds and felt sick and very tired ;-((

Anyway , the funny thing is , i had these 5 seeds left in a drawer and didn't think much abt it after the bad trip on 10 seeds but last week i had this kind of intuition : " it seems a good day to do the last 5 seeds today " Seems like i was right , I had a great time , it felt a bit like on a low dose of acid but not much visual until i smoked a joint of hash in the evening and the taste of it felt so good ! I then kept tripping for hours but with visuals ...

I'd like to do extraction but I'm such a loosie chemist , lol ...

Love to all and be safe !

@mauve hasn't been around for a while so it would be surprising if they were to reply.

It looks as though there's a synergy with the cannabinoid pathways that helps to boost the effects of HBWR and other psychedelics, since you report that a hash joint set things off nicely, while @mauve speculates on the FAAH-inhibitory action of nutmeg along with @downwardsfromzero reporting more generally on experiences:

I've found nutmeg tincture to be a great pre-dose enhancer for shrooms, so why not?

So, it appears that the sequence of combining cannabinoid/FAAHI works either way round, perhaps.

There's also the aldehyde hypothesis, wherein I can confirm that intense effects followed taking 5 seeds after an evening's drinking, washed down with some brandy. Using one's body as an alchemical retort like this is something I'd hesitate to recommend given alcohol's (and, particularly, acetaldehyde's) toxicity, however.

Given that acetaldehyde can form isoquinolines such as salsolinol on combination with phenethylamine neurotransmitters, e.g. dopamine, I do wonder how much of a role this might play in the activation of LSA as well.

 

[Thierr7]

I'll try nutmeg next time for sure ! + hash later on

 

[Transform]

I'll try nutmeg next time for sure ! + hash later on

Just bear in mind, nutmeg can be a bit heavy going (or wholly ineffective) and it's a good idea to drink plenty of water with it. Using it in the form of a tincture allows easier dose control and better efficacy through solubilisation of active components while reducing negative side effects. Links to nutmeg-related threads can be found in my sig.

 

[Thierr7]

Just bear in mind, nutmeg can be a bit heavy going (or wholly ineffective) and it's a good idea to drink plenty of water with it. Using it in the form of a tincture allows easier dose control and better efficacy through solubilisation of active components while reducing negative side effects. Links to nutmeg-related threads can be found in my sig.

Thanks for the insight ! I didn't know nutmeg could be so bad ! i did some long time ago and felt some kind of thc high , not sure i'm going to mix them with LSA from what i know now !

 

[Transform]

Thanks for the insight ! I didn't know nutmeg could be so bad ! i did some long time ago and felt some kind of thc high , not sure i'm going to mix them with LSA from what i know now !

This is rather why I suggest making a tincture and using it in smaller amounts as pre-dosed enhancer for serotonergic psychedelics. By itself, it's something of a drug of last resort, especially when consumed as the whole nutmeg powder.

In contrast, my own experiences with the tincture prior to a psychedelic as mentioned were joyful, colourful and positive. The antidepressant and sensory-enhancing properties of low dose nutmeg pair very well with classic psychedelics and could potentially be viewed as providing something of a safety net, moodwise, for those prone to anxiety. Wisdom dictates that the usual rules regarding set and setting will still apply, so it's no excuse for recklessness. The psychedelics appear to provide something of a neuroprotectant effect too, which may help in preventing a nutmeg hangover.

All told, I would still consider trying a nutmeg tincture + LSA/HBWR trip given the opportunity. It's as much a question of having the free days for me, though - mainly on account of my rather stringent personal rules on how I go about tripping.

While we can't ever 100% guarantee that a psychedelic experience will go in any particular direction, those were my observations on experimenting with nutmeg tincture after having a couple of decades of previous psychedelic experience. YMMV!

 

[Thierr7]

Very interesting ! Too high on LSA and hash again to write now ...

 

[Thierr7]

Hi ,

I used a nail file to remove the skin of HBWR seeds , It works perfectly .

No body load at all , perfect trip !

 

[Isanara]

The skin of HBWR seeds doesn't have any chemicals that can cause body load. You can even take the removed skins and eat them by themselves and see. They don't do anything.

One method is to soak the seeds overnight in bit of water, or use a paper towel method, to get them to swell and soften. In this state the outer cost of the seed is very easy to remove and the seeds are still quite active.

 

[Transform]

Hi ,

I used a nail file to remove the skin of HBWR seeds , It works perfectly .

No body load at all , perfect trip !

Any notes on dosage? How many seeds and how much nutmeg? Did you get round to making a tincture yet?

Mace also makes a particularly good tincture with, if anything, superior quality of effects. I inadvertently discovered mace tincture's surprisingly rapid transdermal action once when I used it as an emergency hand sanitiser

[Tangent: I've also seen a rumour that, in common with several other myristicaceous plants, fresh mace arils contain appreciable amounts of the 5-methoxy derivative of DMT. This barely even counts as apocryphal, however, hence couching it in these mildly obfuscatory tones in order to hinder the contamination of searches with this speculative post. If anyone out there knows anything more about this, especially to the extent of being able to give a valid literature reference, I'd be very grateful to hear - my own searches thus far have been unsuccessful.]

 

[Transform]

The skin of HBWR seeds doesn't have any chemicals that can cause body load. You can even take the removed skins and eat them by themselves and see. They don't do anything.

One method is to soak the seeds overnight in bit of water, or use a paper towel method, to get them to swell and soften. In this state the outer cost of the seed is very easy to remove and the seeds are still quite active.

The one thing I'd say seems preferable is the removal of the fine coat of hairs. For my own 'experiment' with these seeds this was achieved in an impromptu fashion by swirling them in a cup with a piece of glowing charcoal. While I did subsequently experience terrible nausea and subsequently vomited with the aid of salt water, this was not at surprising considering the amount of alcohol - particularly brandy - which I'd consumed beforehand. A very deep experience ensued once the purging was done with; it was quite memorable, I just tipped forward and poured out the contents of my stomach next to a huge neolithic standing stone!

 

[Isanara]

Alcohol soluble resins are widely known from the family. They occur in the seeds themselves and can be obtained by soaking the crushed seeds in alcohol, decanting and then diluting it with water to cause them to precipitate.

These are the primary source of intestinal discomfort and are the reason that some species are used as laxatives.

However clavine series alkaloids, including lysergic acid, can cause nausea all by themselves. Nearly all psychedelic molecules can, under certain conditions. Mushrooms and LSD are widely known to cause consistent nausea in some people.

Let me try to be clear, the tiny hairs from the outer skin on HBWR seeds are comparable to the fuzz of a peach. They have no ability to cause any type of body load or discomfort in people.

 

[Transform]

Back on topic, I wonder if the essential oil of nutmeg might synergise with HBWR or other lysegamide/clavine-bearing seeds? Have you considered trying this, @Thierr7?

 

[Thierr7]

I don't know how to make tincture with nutmeg yet /Transform/ but i definitely think abt it ....

I did 6 seeds after nailing them and hash a bit later when i first felt the HBWR coming ... I've already done the method of letting the seeds in water all night but didn't have as good result as just nailing them ...

the seeds i have are considered to be be the strongest HBWR , they indeed got a soft peachy skin on top of the hard part , i removed that too .

Anyway , that was the first time i didn't feel any body load but a good and strong high !

I might be "special" too because i rarely threw up even when i was snorting heroin in my youth , all my friends i was hanging with were throwing up often at the time , i quitted for a very long time , fortunately !

 

[Transform]

I don't know how to make tincture with nutmeg yet /Transform/ but i definitely think abt it ....

I did 6 seeds after nailing them and hash a bit later when i first felt the HBWR coming ... I've already done the method of letting the seeds in water all night but didn't have as good result as just nailing them ...

the seeds i have are considered to be be the strongest HBWR , they indeed got a soft peachy skin on top of the hard part , i removed that too .

Anyway , that was the first time i didn't feel any body load but a good and strong high !

I might be "special" too because i rarely threw up even when i was snorting heroin in my youth , all my friends i was hanging with were throwing up often at the time , i quitted for a very long time , fortunately !

Nutmeg (or mace) tincture is super easy to make if you've got the right ingredients. I've had best results using alcohol in the 70 - 80% ABV range.

Friends attempting this with normal strength (35 - 40%) spirits reported that it was largely unsuccessful, although there is also the requirement of ensuring that you have decent nutmeg in the first place.

I can confirm the anecdotal reports that nutmeg with a reddish tinge to it will give the best product. If using pre-powdered nutmeg you'd need to confirm its quality somehow. When using whole kernels, it's possible to check each one as you crack it open, as well as removing the ones which show any sign of yellow mould - that stuff may contain the dreaded aflatoxins and is therefore best avoided.

Of course, grinding your own nutmeg after quality-checking each and every one is rather time consuming, but I've been very satisfied with the result. I've also used pre-ground organic mace, it being less prone to mould and of a more reliable psychoactive quality.

Interesting to hear that we have a high nausea threshold in common. I think it helps with this kind of 'hobby' - and well done for getting away from heroin. I wouldn't say that stuff helps with personal development at all, having gotten too close to that type of milieu myself once upon a time.

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

I've seen reports about cloves and mace being active, both separately and in conjunction with nutmeg, and was always curious if these could be explored in a safe and healthful way. Isn't liver toxicity an issue with high/frequent doses of nutmeg? Unfortunately, most of the accounts I've found have been from minors who did not have harm reduction in mind.

Has anyone tried nutmeg and elemicin? That's another often cited combo I've seen in nutmeg spaces. I feel like back in the 2010s the activity of elemicin was hotly debated here? Everybody was making space paste?

@Transform Super interesting about the rumors of tryptamines in mace I will absolutely give this a deep dive and see if I can turn up any information.

I've always been intrigued by nutmeg, but had permanent pause after reading about "The Baleful Eye."

Nutmeg - The Worst Hallucinogen Ever? - Other Psychoactives - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Also wondering if there might be a method of preparation that reduces bodyload and/or toxicity?

 

[Transform]

The link to most of the nutmeg-related information available on the Nexus can be found in my sig. I've attempted to be explicit about the risks without dwelling on it excessively. I tend to point towards the tincture because it seems to be a safer way of exploring more modest doses of this plant. I also advise against overly frequent use of this material.

Best preparations I tried were the nutmeg tincture made with Carmelite water(?) [Melissengeist], and a Space Paste distilled tincture, retinctured with more Space Paste. That last one was something special. Come to think of it, transdermal mace tincture was quite memorable overall, too.

Ingesting whole nutmeg is, in my view, fairly stupid for a variety of reasons.