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Oldest DMT Ever

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DisEmboDied

Rising Star
What is the oldest DMT you ever smoked and did it still work?

I'm wondering if after 5, 10, 20 years if it would still work fine (especially stored in room temperature)...


What about the same for LSD, Shrooms, etc., anyone take 20 year old acid and it still work awesome?



-Peace, Love, and Light my fellow divine beings of light!
 
Don't know about DMT, but I remember that bottle of Sandoz LSD which was sold at auction few years ago. I think they said it is likely not active anymore.
 
I'd bet a good deal of activity is still retained. I'm not speaking from experience though. Never kept DMT over a year I feel like. Would also depend on light exposure and whether it was sealed airtight.
DMT's shelf life should be much longer than LSD's, though, which is a much less stable molecule.
Others on here likely have kept it a while and can chip in.

Just my 2c
 
I was told by a chemist that a lot of the LSD floating around now is made by William Leonard Pickard. Don't know if this is true or not. As long as LSD is stored right, it should never expire. Same thing for DMT, psilocin and mescaline. However they need to be in their chemically stable forms.
 
I've got got a bit of freebase that is pushing 7 years or so just stored at room temp. It's still very active, any potency loss seems negligible.

I also once ate mushrooms that had been vacuum sealed and stored in a freezer for 10 years, they were still as potent as if they had been pulled off the drying rack yesterday.

I know at one point Pandora ate some LSD that was some decades old having spent many years in Nemo's wallet, and she said that it had lost potency but was still quite active.

At the psychedelic science conference when asked about LSD storage and potency loss, Dr. David Nichols said "I KNOW LSD lasts for over 30 years if it's stored correctly"
 
Bodhisativa said:
I was told by a chemist that a lot of the LSD floating around now is made by William Leonard Pickard. Don't know if this is true or not. As long as LSD is stored right, it should never expire. Same thing for DMT, psilocin and mescaline. However they need to be in their chemically stable forms.

William Leonard pickard is serving two life sentences for the year 2000 wamego, Kansas bust and has not produced LSD for quite some time.

-eg
 
Bodhisativa said:
. As long as LSD is stored right, it should never expire. .

LSD is an unusually fragile molecule and some comments are in order as to its stability and storage. As a salt, in water, cold, and free from air and light exposure, it is stable indefinitely. There are two sensitive aspects of its structure. The position of the carboxamide attachment, the 8-position, is affected by basic, or high pH, conditions. Through a process called epimerization, this position can scramble, producing isolysergic acid diethylamide, or iso-LSD. This product is biologically inactive, and represents a loss of a proportionate amount of active product. A second and separate point of instability is the double bond that lies between this 8-position and the aromatic ring. Water or alcohol can add to this site, especially in the presence of light (sunlight with its ultraviolet energy is notoriously bad) to form a product that has been called lumi-LSD, which is totally inactive in man. Oh yes, and often overlooked, there may be only an infinitesimal amount of chlorine in treated tap water, but then there is only an infinitesimal amount of LSD in a typical LSD solution. And since chlorine will destroy LSD on contact, the dissolving of LSD in tap water is not appropriate.
Shulgin;TIHKAL

-----

-eg
 
Here shulgin discusses beta-carboline degradation in banisteriopsis caapi, May be a little off topic, but fascinating none the less...

Maybe over the years, harmaline spontaneously loses a molecule of hydrogen, and becomes harmine. Not an easy thing to reckon with, chemically, but I am running out of possibilities. I was led to a comment that had been once made by a quiet hero of mine, Bo Holmstedt in Sweden, concerning the analysis of an ancient sample of plant material from Banisteria caapi (now known as Banisteriopsis caapi). The herbarium specimens he was looking at had been collected by the 19th century plant explorer Richard Spruce in the Rio Negro area of South America and had, after a few years of storage in a moist and mildewy hut a few miles down river, been rediscovered and sent on to the Kew Botanical Museum where they had quietly rested for over a hundred years. When Holmstedt worked them up some 30 years ago, he reported that the alkaloid content was 0.4%. This was virtually identical to a newly collected, botanically verified specimen of Banisteriopsis caapi which he analyzed at the same time and found to contain 0.5% alkaloids. The latter material contained, as described by many authors, the main alkaloids harmine, harmaline and tetrahydroharmine. By contrast, the alkaloid content of the Spruce material consisted exclusively of harmine. It is open to question whether the samples collected by Spruce in 1853 originally contained only harmine or, perhaps more likely, that harmaline and tetrahydroharmine have with time been transformed into the chemically more stable aromatic b-carboline harmine.
-shulgin; tihkal

----

What is the primary degradation product of DMT?

DMT-N-oxide?
Indole-3-acetic acid?
Is it cyclized to some beta-carboline?

-eg
 
DisEmboDied said:
What is the oldest DMT you ever smoked and did it still work?

I'm wondering if after 5, 10, 20 years if it would still work fine (especially stored in room temperature)...


What about the same for LSD, Shrooms, etc., anyone take 20 year old acid and it still work awesome?



-Peace, Love, and Light my fellow divine beings of light!

I have several of vials of LSD that are around 10-12 years old. They are all amber dropper bottles. Two are 25mcg per drop the other 100mcg (100 and 50 drops respectively). They have been kept out of light in a temperature stable place. I've made sure that the dropper never touches any surface. I'm sure if you were to carelessly touch the dropper on your finger to dispense a drop then put it back in the bottle you'd see it degrade over time from contamination of detergent or chlorine.

They are as potent as they were a decade ago. 50mcg is enough to really kick in really hard after 30-40 minutes. 1-2 drops of 100mcg is mind bendingly beautiful.
Given the frequency that I do LSD (very little - a trip a year) I have very little doubt it'll be as well kept in another 20-30 years. I may even have to specify a beneficiary for it in my will.
 
[/quote]
I have several of vials of LSD that are around 10-12 years old. They are all amber dropper bottles. Two are 25mcg per drop the other 100mcg (100 and 50 drops respectively). They have been kept out of light in a temperature stable place. I've made sure that the dropper never touches any surface. I'm sure if you were to carelessly touch the dropper on your finger to dispense a drop then put it back in the bottle you'd see it degrade over time from contamination of detergent or chlorine.

They are as potent as they were a decade ago. 50mcg is enough to really kick in really hard after 30-40 minutes. 1-2 drops of 100mcg is mind bendingly beautiful.
Given the frequency that I do LSD (very little - a trip a year) I have very little doubt it'll be as well kept in another 20-30 years. I may even have to specify a beneficiary for it in my will.[/quote]


this made me smile.:)
 
I transported LSU once in the summer time, prob around 100 degrees outside, i was moving and it was in the back of a uhaul for a few hours or more, it never saw the light of day though as it was kept in pure darkness, I had them for a couple years before that, then I had to transport them on that hot summer day, and I always wonder in the back of my mind if I accidentally destroyed or degraded it. I will never really know until I try it, it may be just as potent, hopefully it will not be a disappointment. I know it was the best stuff I ever took whenever I did take it. What do you think, can heat alone destroy it without light?

I had DMT stored outside during the 100 degree summer months without any seeming degration, but it was not in the light at least, but DMT seems to be very hardy. It does always seem to be a little more potent once very freshly made, but after that it always stays about the same. I once had some DMT that was so old and degraded looking that I almost threw it away, but I tried it and had one of the best experiences of my life.
 
Yeah my husband and I took 25 year old LSD in 2009 and based upon our memories, it was exacctly the same, just a bit less potent.

It was stored in my husband's wallet, in his back pocket for 10 years. So clearly it can handle body and some external heat.

The remaining 15 years it was in an old style metallic 35mm film can in the fridge.

It seems the main key was avoiding exposure to light. We were so careful about it, and it seemed to work.
 
Last summer I smoked some changa that was stored in a transparent piece of loose plastic in Italy for about 5 years. It was subjected to a lot of heat and indirect sunlight most of the time too. I didn't notice much difference in potency and had 3 of the most transformative experiences of my life.
 
I've found crystals forming out of old extracted base soup that was kept for 5 years. They were absolutely fine.

Keeping a naphtha solution from recrystallisation for years resulted in it evaporating down to a brown-black tar, which was discarded.
 
At one point I had a bag of mushrooms that was over 10 years old. They had been in a storage locker and frozen and thawed a lot but were quite dry.

I'd say they were half as potent by weight as originally but they also seemed to have a cleaner head space with very little body load.

They were nice. Wish I still had some.
 
MooshyPeaches said:
I have some that is over 5 years old, changed color but just still as good
I have some that is 3 yrs old that is amazing still. Kept in a moisture barrier bag with little yellowing. I keep it like a drinker keeps a good wine.
 
Dont know about pickard.. but id love to get my paws on some [..sands.. orange sunshine:) or grey owsely.. or green pentagon. ...yellow micro dot...i really miss the great windowpane acid of the 70s !:d
 
I've seen unopened vials of sandoz LSD from the early 50s...

I would love to get my hands on some of owsley Stanley's original "white lightening", Stanley was a sound engineer for the dead, and in the early days the dead were closely connected to Ken kesey, being the house band for the acid test parties for a period of time, so it's fairly obvious where the LSD for the acid tests was comming from... (Though there are stories claiming that after kesey volunteered for psychedelic studies at the Veterans Administration Hospital in Menlo Park, CA involving AMT,LSD, and mescaline, that the hospital was robbed of their entire supply of these substances, which coincidentally showed up on "furthur" after...)

When Nick sand was charged for producing "Orange sunshine" he claimed that his product was not lysergic acid diethylamide but 1-acetyl-lysergic acid diethylamide (ALD-52), now, this may have been a legal tactic to avoid prosecution (though it failed), or there's a chance that orange sunshine really was ALD-52, I guess you would have to ask Mr. Sand personally.

There's some display of universal karma when looking at the clandestine LSD manufacturers, so it doesn't surprise me that sand is free, and people like pickard (who I have heard terrible things about) ended up serving two life sentences...

Though pickard did study at Purdue under David E. Nichols for a short time, and knew his chemistry well, he may have even distributed LSZ (Lysergic acid 2,4-dimethylazetidide) under names such as "diazedine" and "λ" before Nichols and his team at Purdue were able to publish, technically he could have pilfered Nichols work for analogues to distribute clandestinely, though it seems that aside from the LSZ rumors this did not happen much...

Nick sand was said to be the first clandestine chemist to synthesize DMT, and has wrote some great papers regarding DMT Moving Into the Sacred World of DMT, by Nick Sand - Psychedelic Frontier
Just a Wee Bit More About DMT, by Nick Sand - Psychedelic Frontier

If I could take some preserved LSD from the past, For history's sake I'd say I would want either some of Nick sands Orange sunshine or owsley Stanley's white lightening...(Stanley designed the "steal your face" logo for the grateful dead, the logo is an obvious representation of white lightening LSD)

...sorry for the rambling, just got thinking about LSD that I'll never get the privilege to sample...thank God people are still keeping the spirit alive, Casey William Hardison is a perfect example of a clandestine chemist that I think was justified in his actions, I've listened to hardisons reasoning, and feel his motivations are just, we should be holding Entheogenic chemists in the highest regards, so long as their motives are correct, not imprisoning them.

Alexander shulgin, David E. Nichols, Daniel Trachsel, etc...these are the chemists I look up to most, however I hold Nick sand, owsley Stanley, Casey Harrison, etc...in the same high regards, mckenna makes the comment
In the Middle Ages, the church forbade dissection of human bodies, and medical students would visit battlefields and the gallows at night, and steal the bodies of victims of war and executed prisoners, in order to learn human physiology. Where that spirit of scientific courage has gone, I don't know; but there is very little of it left. Now, people feed at the trough of government grants and enormous corporate research budgets, and the idea of actually pursuing truth, or attempting to understand the phenomenon in an unbiased fashion, divorced from its commercial, social and political dimensions, is unheard of.

The spirit which mckenna is referring to is not dead, people like Nick sand, Casey Harrison, bear Stanley, and even Alexander shulgin are keeping it alive, and I respect them for it.

I've gone way too far off topic and will draw this to a close...

-eg
 
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