Oral harmalas + smoked DMT = 10x longer than DMT alone

[q21q21]

I was rather blow away today with an amazing experience.
I've smoked DMT 100+ times, changa many times and sublingual harmalas + 5smoked DMT many times as well.
The changa added some distinct effects and extended the peak maybe 50-75% and after effects by 2-3 times.
It is great and amazing that is a fact, just stating it for comparison.

What happened today:

I took 150mg of mostly-harmine which is a dose I could go shopping on, no visuals, not much.
Then I sat and smoked 15mg of DMT, enough for a 3+, just for testing.
After holding the toke for 10 seconds I had to scramble to put the pipe down and I knew I was into something.
I really can't remember much of it, it was not a breakthrough but very intense and with a distinct flavor of the harmine

THEN 3-4 minutes later I opened my eyes and looked at a white board on my wall that I can squint to read but it was fuzzy and I could not read it because the visuals were so rapidly morphing over the letter.
I sat up and it just kept going, I was still at 3+ for another 3-4 minutes still (2-2.5 min with DMT alone) then I sat down in my computer chair and it very slowly settled down, visuals fading by about 30 minutes and the mental effects lasting well over an hour.

I was very suprised, I've never heard of this. I assumed like changa it would last twice as long max but nope.
I searched and I found another account of the same reaction.

Usually as House said, when I take aya/pharma, I'll usually end up smoking on top of it to really blast things to the next level, especially if it's a weak experience. There was only one time where I took syrian rue without orally ingesting any DMT, but simply smoked on it, and perceptually it was identical to a pharma trip. The only difference is that it lasted an hour instead of 4-6. But the solution to that dilemma is easy...take another hit or two and you'll be up for another hour. To me it seems almost like a more efficient way to dose pharma because you're not signing the contract for the long haul, but if you want it, you can get it by just smoking more. If it was too much, put down the pipe, if not just light up again. Then again, I'm often looking for that long deal anyway, so I'll take the pharma just to spice things up (pun intended ).

It was a really interesting experience and I plan to do it many more times in the future, I'd love to hear if anyone else does this or from people who might (responsibly!) try it out!

Peace!

 

[entheogenadvocate]

I don't have near the experience that many nexians do with Aya brews with admixtures, but as of now, oral harmalas with low doses of DMT freebase is my absolute favorite combination!!

I have used oral harmalas to begin 4 hour+ yoga/mediation sessions where I'm able to just take a toke or two every 10-20 minutes to keep the spirits dancing around me. For harmalas, I've used brews with 50-80 grams, up to 285 mgs of harmine extract, or up to 365 mgs of harmine/harmala extract.

I've experienced so much healing with this combination. In addition to increasing the duration of the experience, it increases the intensity of sub-breakthrough doses (12-18 mgs), which allows you to determine EXACTLY how deep you want to go.

So many benefits to this combination... puts a smile on my face just thinking about it.

Peace and Happy Journeys

 

[Felnik]

this the only way i travel these days ,

 

[jamie]

it also comes on alot slower..sometimes you will think it is not working too much cus it hits about 5x slower. I have done this so many times and it is a consistantly slower onset.

 

[3rdI]

i have a weird reaction to report on this topic.

in the last week i have been experimenting with rue and vaped jimjam changa.
i built up the rue dose slowly, mon-1g/tue-2g/weds-3g. I was waiting 40 mins then vaping some changa and waiting for the results.

Mon/Tue- i had lovely journeys, i loaded up 70mg of 1:1 changa each time. These 70mg hits took me to the same level i normally reach with this size of dose, but with no noticable effects from the rue.

Weds- I felt that the rue was much more noticeable, i was pretty chilled out and the preflight anxiety was somewhat relieved. I took my 70mg and the effects were severely reduced, the CEV were next to non existent, i waited as i know it can come on slower when hamala's are used, but after a few minutes it still hadnt hit.
There was still an effect, but it was purely a mental effect. The effects were comparable to maybe half the dose i had actually taken.

The experience was certainly extened, the after glow lasted for about 15 mins and consisted of breathing bed clothes and the like.

I then ate the same amount(70mg of 1:1) and nothing happened but this was just a spur of the moment thing and i think i will need a higher dose for the pharma effect.

I am quite confused as to the lowering of the experience as i was expecting a longer stronger journey.
I will try 4g of rue tonight and report back.

 

[tryptographer]

Strange indeed 3rdI. Maybe something in the diet, or medication is interfering..???

In my experience the oral hamala / smoked DMT combo is absolutely brilliant, to the point that smoking DMT while not orally MAOId almost seems like a waste of precious DMT!

I used this method during the first SHE but can't find the report. I don't smoke a lot these days - still integrating - but that was lightyears beyond the wildest dreams... a more fluid, liquid experience, extended peak (but still a peak, more like Mauna Loa than the Matterhorn), huge one hour+ afterglow, much less DMT needed.

And why not throw in a small mushroom dose along with the harmala. Not too much but enough to get in the mood and make liftoff easier

 

[tele]

I'm a fan of sublingual harmalas.. 20-30mg caapi extract. I wonder what is the difference between oral harmala and sublingual harmala vaped DMT experience? Because I think it should be noticeable enough to be using so much more material to be worthwhile.

 

[q21q21]

Tried it again earlier today.
Used only 100mg mostly-harmine and smoked 10mg @ 25 min then again at 1:30 then again at 6:20 and the first was a 2+ for 35-40 min, second was a little stronger for a similar same duration and I think the last one was a little shorter, it was also less intense in the first 6-7 minutes.

In many ways I felt somewhat "shroomy" but being on a tryptamine and walking around is probably why, haven't done that on anything else.
The big difference between shrooms however is the absence of a sustained plateau.

This second test was very interesting and I'm stoked at the reliability and I'll try higher doses next time for sure.

I made a little graph that represents my experience with the effects with this and comparable experiences too.

edit: The lines represent 1 hour.
Also the line for the oral harmalas + smoke DMT should continue, shallow-sloping going past 1 hour.

 

[tele]

That's interesting. I tend to get very similar effects on sublingual harmalas plus vaped DMT, lasting about 20-40 minutes depending on the dose(of course the breakthrough doesn't last that long)... How would you compare oral harmalas+DMT and sublingual harmalas+DMT?
I'm just wondering if there is any reason to use more harmalas, as with sublingual it's 20-30mg for me.

 

[obliguhl]

For me:

Vaped DMT = 3-5 minutes experience
Changa= 5-8 minutes experience
Sublingual harmalas + vaped DMT = 8-12 minutes experience
Oral harmalas + vaped DMT = 20+ minutes

 

[rOm]

For me:

Vaped DMT = 3-5 minutes experience
Changa= 5-8 minutes experience
Sublingual harmalas + vaped DMT = 8-12 minutes experience
Oral harmalas + vaped DMT = 20+ minutes

LSD+changa = 20+ minutes

 

[Doodazzle]

The chart does not reflect the slow onset of oral harmalas plus vaped spice. I'd agree with jamie--first time I did this combo I was convinced I didn't get enough of something....it builds up so slow. Oral harmalas plus smoked/vaped spice leads me on more of a journey, even multiple journeys after just one inhalation. A plot-line will play out, with a beggining middle and an end and then another story/lesson begins.

So much more depth and character to the experience.

Whenever I do this combo I tend to make more a day of it. Monitoring my diet, no reading or listening to music unless it happens to be positive or inspiring music/literature, being especially mindful to avoid conflict that day--basicly living as a monk for a day, in preperation for serious spiritual work.

 

[q21q21]

That's interesting. I tend to get very similar effects on sublingual harmalas plus vaped DMT, lasting about 20-40 minutes depending on the dose(of course the breakthrough doesn't last that long)... How would you compare oral harmalas+DMT and sublingual harmalas+DMT?
I'm just wondering if there is any reason to use more harmalas, as with sublingual it's 20-30mg for me.

Just as a comparison I tried 30mg harmine sublingually and oddly despite the effects of the harmine being felt significantly more than 100-150mg orally the duration of the DMT effects was much shorter. Tracers went away at about 9-10 minutes unlike 25-35 min with the oral harmine. It seems that the duration varies greatly from person mind you, this is just my reaction.



There was also a difference in the quality of the experience, nothing I can really verbalize but there was something distinct from the 2 times with oral harmine (8x smoking total)

I mean it all comes down to what you want and it is so amazing that you can pick whether you want a 3-5 min, a 7-10 min, a 30-60 min or 3-6 hour experience by changing how you take it.

One thing that I'd be interested in is whether raising the initial dose would increase the duration of the peak and total, I think it makes sense that it should. I have been using 10mg for all the experiments so for just to keep dose out of the variables (plus it is majestically visual without being too intense)

The chart does not reflect the slow onset of oral harmalas plus vaped spice. I'd agree with jamie--first time I did this combo I was convinced I didn't get enough of something....it builds up so slow. Oral harmalas plus smoked/vaped spice leads me on more of a journey, even multiple journeys after just one inhalation. A plot-line will play out, with a beggining middle and an end and then another story/lesson begins.

So much more depth and character to the experience.

Whenever I do this combo I tend to make more a day of it. Monitoring my diet, no reading or listening to music unless it happens to be positive or inspiring music/literature, being especially mindful to avoid conflict that day--basicly living as a monk for a day, in preperation for serious spiritual work.

I'm really surprised with a second account of the slow onset because I experience the exact opposite. Normally it take about 20-25 seconds to get to the peak with DMT alone but when on oral harmalas it takes 8-12 seconds and I scramble to put the pipe down!

As of the making a day of it, I plan to try that.
Yesterday I took 100mg of harmine at 12:40pm and smoked the same 10mg at 7:10pm and 10:55pm with the experience still being extended, though slightly shorter than earlier in the day. The 7:10pm being maybe 25min and the 10:55 being around 20min. I actually went to work to do some paperwork at 4pm not really feeling anything anymore but appearently the RIMA was still active to some degree when I got back.

 

[q21q21]

Okay I actually figured out what the quality difference was.
I don't know why, really I don't, but sublingual mostly-harmine is MUCH MUCH more sedating than oral mostly-harmine. With smoked DMT of course.

I had an amazing shift from CEVs to introspection of a very serious period of my life with aided visuals at point while I layed in a very sleepy state.
I noticed that I was a little more heavy-eyed than usual while trying to do a little work on my computer so it seemes, at least for me, that sublingual makes it much more sedating!

 

[jamie]

I dont find sublingual harmine any more sedating than oral. I also think that graph is off a bit. Mushrooms dont plateau for that long. Mushrooms typically peak for like 40 minutes to an hour unless you redose. The experience goes for hours yes but definatily does not peak for hours. I have taken them at least 100 times and a true peak of about 45 minutes is consistant for me unless I have taken a gigantic dose or I eat them slowly over a long period. Many times I can take them, come up for 45-60 minutes, peak for an hour or less..then come down for another hour or 2.

I also dont find that with oral harmine smoked DMT lasts longer than with sublingual. It is about the same in my experience. Sublingual harmine itself lasts for an hour or 2 so I dont see why the DMT should be inhibited for and less time than with oral.

 

[tele]

I see you use mostly harmine... Is there any difference if one uses mix of harmalas, such as the harmalas that come from caapi extraction?

Jamie: It seems that people react differently to different chemicals...

 

[obliguhl]

. I also think that graph is off a bit. Mushrooms dont plateau for that long. Mushrooms typically peak for like 40 minutes to an hour unless you redose. The experience goes for hours yes but definatily does not peak for hours

True + these charts are not really comparable, because it is not clear if they reflect the complete trip time. It is true, that a dmt peak is shorter than a mushroom peak but that's only because the whole DMT experience lasts 5 minutes and mushrooms 5 hours+.

Erowids charts are more realistic. Here is the one for mushrooms:

Source: Erowid Psilocybin Mushroom Vault : Effects

 

[ragabr]

Mushrooms dont plateau for that long. Mushrooms typically peak for like 40 minutes to an hour unless you redose.

The charts only show an hours worth of the trip.