Pharma works aya doesn't

[Mimosa_Man]

So I'm having an issue. I can make pharma and drink it and 45 minutes later I'm in hyperspace. I brew some ayahuasca and drink it and nothing happens. I made the pharma with dmt I extracted from MHRB, and maoi powder I bowled down and evaporated from b. Caapi vine.

For some reason I can not get the aya to work.

Pharma = 3-4g caapi maoi powder + 100mg of dmt in vinegar water.
Aya = 50g b caapi vine powdered and 50g MHRB powdered
I've also tried :
100g b caapi vine powdered and 75g MHRB powdered

I have misfired 4 times on aya now and it's getting really irritating.

When I brew the aya I do four seperate "boils" on low-med heat for four hours each with about 6 cups of water in each boil. I then slowly evaporate the boils into about two ounces worth of liquid. Nothing EVER burns or even actually boils, at most it gets to a medium simmer.

Any thoughts or suggestions on what could have gone wrong would be greatly appreciated.

I'm tired of wasting material and I want to have the "real" ayahuasca experience. Am I just wasting my time and products with my aya attempts?

 

[soulfood]

First of all 75g of MHRB is insane... like... 5g for me is heavy so.... wow! Seems you're dosing your aya 7.5x approx of your pharma's light.

I'd recommend trying a different source of caapi as IME it's more often than not the weak link. MHRB is pretty much bullet proof.

Also don't be afraid to get that brew bubbling a little here and there. I usually judge that I'm damaging a brew by the smell changes. So I do a few gentle boils and when I'm near exhausting the material I start boiling more aggressively.

 

[Mimosa_Man]

But the pharma is from THE SAME BACH OF CAAPI and it works fine...
Also when boiling my caapi for my pharma doses I do it the same way.

 

[universecannon]

jesus christ man, 75 GRAMS of mimosa?!??! ...5 grams is big does for many many people when they are fully inhibited...You do realize that 75g of mimosa is around 1.5GRAMS of DMT, right??? Thats 1,500MG......I hope this is a typo :shock:

You should be counting your lucky stars that you misfired and it didn't work, because you would have been in for one long and agonizing ride my friend. It's funny how massive overkill doses sometimes don't seem to work, as if the medicine goes "NOPE, lets give em a break, and not hyper-punt his arse just yet".

Some caapi is quite weak...Also don't be afraid to boil it...its not going to loose potency. Just keep it right above the threshold of boiling. If you mess up and burn it, the it'll just taste worse, not loose potency. I've also had bad luck with powdered caapi...it seemed impotent, and not to mention difficult to boil/filter.

 

[Mimosa_Man]

No no typo, I started with the smaller batches 5g mimosa/ 20-30g caapi and got nothing figured perhaps it wasn't potent enough... I can't tell you how many grams I must have wasted on misfires. You'd cry.

 

[Mimosa_Man]

And trust me on the caapi, it is very potent in the pharma mixtures. I boiled ten grams of caapi and got 8-9grams of powder from it. It tastes like death and has typical caapi effects.

 

[universecannon]

...I hope to god you're trolling ^__^


No one needs 1,500MG of DMT for it to work when mao is properly inhibited. Or even a third of that...

Why not take caapi on its own some night, and find the dose that has psychedelic affects for you so that you know where your at with it? Or just get syrian rue?

 

[SnozzleBerry]

But the pharma is from THE SAME BACH OF CAAPI and it works fine...
Also when boiling my caapi for my pharma doses I do it the same way.

But you also say

Pharma = 3-4g caapi maoi powder + 100mg of dmt in vinegar water.
Aya = 50g b caapi vine powdered and 50g MHRB powdered

By "caapi maoi powder" do you mean extracted alkaloids from caapi? If so, I'm assuming that it's a fairly impure extract, as 3-4g of pure harmalas is an experience I would not wish on anyone. So, the question then is, how many grams of caapi do you use to extract to those 3-4g? I assume it is significantly more than 50g.

This would highlight your caapi as the reason your pharma misfired...and thank god it did. At 50g of caapi, it's more than likely you simply did not inhibit MAO. I would consider using the amount of caapi to brew with as you use to get your "3-4g caapi maoi powder."

Also, why on earth would you take that much mimosa?

 

[Mimosa_Man]

By "caapi maoi powder" do you mean extracted alkaloids from caapi? If so, I'm assuming that it's a fairly impure extract, as 3-4g of pure harmalas is an experience I would not wish on anyone.

This would highlight your caapi as the reason your pharma misfired...and thank god it did. At 50g of caapi, it's more than likely you simply did not inhibit MAO. I would consider using the amount of caapi to brew with as you use to get your "3-4g caapi maoi powder."

Also, why on earth would you take that much mimosa?

I can get anywhere from 5-10 grams crude extract per 20g of caapi powder when I go for the crude caapi extract I boil as many boils as I can until the water stops changing color.

As to why am I taking so much? For the experience. Why not take that much

and I promise I'm not trollin Universe.

 

[Mimosa_Man]

...I hope to god you're trolling ^__^


No one needs 1,500MG of DMT for it to work when mao is properly inhibited. Or even a third of that...

Why not take caapi on its own some night, and find the dose that has psychedelic affects for you so that you know where your at with it? Or just get syrian rue?

I agree that it has go to be an maoi issue, but I just don't see why it's an issue. Same basic procedure, I've even followed several different recipes to the T and gotten no results. Most recently I tried the "crock pot" method where you add water and vinegar to the crock pot with your dry materials and leave it to cook on high for 24 hours then reducing in a lot to a single dose. In that batch I had 50g caapi and 30g mhrb. Zero effects besides nausea for about an hour after drinking it.

Also 3-4g caapi extract is a psychedelic dose for me.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

I can get anywhere from 5-10 grams crude extract per 20g of caapi powder when I go for the crude caapi extract I boil as many boils as I can until the water stops changing color.

But, this doesn't mean anything. When you take that extract, it is equivalent to less than 20g...and even if we assume a perfectly efficient extraction (which just doesn't happen), you would only be taking the alkaloidal equivalent of 20g of caapi, which is unlikely to inhibit MAO. If you are working with crude extract, rather than purified, the weight of the extract is much less relevant than the weight of the starting material.

Again, how much material do you use for the crude 3-4g harmala extract you referred to earlier in the thread? I think you are drastically underdosing caapi when it comes to your aya brew.

As to why am I taking so much? For the experience. Why not take that much

Because it's reckless. Because it's dangerous. Because it's irresponsible.

Have you ever taken an oral dose of DMT over 400mg when your MAO is properly inhibited? It's not smiles and sunshine...not by a longshot. The amount that you attempted to take is so far into the realm of absurdity that the two responses to this post should be precisely what we've seen in this thread so far: 1) Please don't repeat that dose of Mimosa, you may hurt yourself or others, it's just not safe and 2) I hope this is not trolling.

 

[soulfood]

My recommendation is brew 4-5 doses worth of caapi and drink them dose at a time spaced an hour apart.

When you start to notice a definite effect, consume 3g mimosa or there abouts.

If the alkaloids are in there stuff will go down for sure. You can also re-dose the mimosa later if things aren't really there. I actually think this slow entry method is the best way to go.

 

[Mimosa_Man]

I can get anywhere from 5-10 grams crude extract per 20g of caapi powder when I go for the crude caapi extract I boil as many boils as I can until the water stops changing color.

But, this doesn't mean anything. When you take that extract, it is equivalent to less than 20g...and even if we assume a perfectly efficient extraction (which just doesn't happen), you would only be taking the alkaloidal equivalent of 20g of caapi, which is unlikely to inhibit MAO. If you are working with crude extract, rather than purified, the weight of the extract is much less relevant than the weight of the starting material.

Again, how much material do you use for the crude 3-4g harmala extract you referred to earlier in the thread? I think you are drastically underdosing caapi when it comes to your aya brew.

As to why am I taking so much? For the experience. Why not take that much

Because it's reckless. Because it's dangerous. Because it's irresponsible.

Have you ever taken an oral dose of DMT over 400mg when your MAO is properly inhibited? It's not smiles and sunshine...not by a longshot. The amount that you attempted to take is so far into the realm of absurdity that the two responses to this post should be precisely what we've seen in this thread so far: 1) Please don't repeat that dose of Mimosa, you may hurt yourself or others, it's just not safe and 2) I hope this is not trolling.

So you are saying if I boiled down 50g into the crude extract, which is usually the amount I go with, then my total powder afterwards is only equal to 50g of caapi, I gotcha now I shouldn't be splitting up my crude extracts I should be takin ALL of them when I boil the stuff down. Most likely I've been underdosing maoi and apparently WAAAY overdosing the dmt.

 

[jamie]

50g mimosa would equal 1g(1000mg) or more DMT...and with 50g caapi I fail to understand how that could ever ever ever EVER not be active for you, when with pharma you only require 100mg DMT???

Something is wrong there.

It makes absolutly no sense. Maybe your scale is not functioning properly?

Be careful. If you did drink 50g mimosa than concider yourself lucky that it did not work for you. Maybe there is a reason for that...

 

[Mimosa_Man]

50g mimosa would equal 1g(1000mg) or more DMT...and with 50g caapi I fail to understand how that could ever ever ever EVER not be active for you, when with pharma you only require 100mg DMT???

Something is wrong there.

It makes absolutly no sense. Maybe your scale is not functioning properly?

Be careful. If you did drink 50g mimosa than concider yourself lucky that it did not work for you. Maybe there is a reason for that...

I've also considered that maybe it's just not meant to be yet...

 

[Orion]

Are you brewing from the same batch of stuff you extracted from?

 

[Sabnock]

Yo Mimosa_Man, first off, like everyone else here has said, 50 grams is just way too much bro. Back when i had access to the good ol' Mimosa, it only took 8 grams TOPS and even then it was too much, more like 6 grams for me was a really good dose. The Mimosa should be fine, it's the MAO-A inhibition you need to check. Please, do NOT waste any more of the precious, considering how rare the Mimosa is these days, i'd strongly advise you to put the Mimosa down until you know what you're doing wrong or perhaps switch to Acacia until you figure out what's going wrong.

I personally haven't had the opportunity to experience the vine, but from reading experience reports and such, idk if 50 grams or even 100 grams would be enough for full on MAO-A inhibition or not, depending on the quality of the vine you have. And it's okay to boil the brew, it's not going to mess anything up. What i'd do though, is get some Syrian Rue seeds, 4 grams of that stuff will def. work for ya.

However your method of extraction from the vine confuses me. What you need to do, is brew up some vine by boiling it on medium to medium high heat (boiling doesn't harm it at all and is much quicker in duration), reduce it down to 400mls, filter, pour it into a measuring cup and then simply dissolve 10 grams of some Sodium Carbonate aka Washing Soda (made by heating Baking Soda in the oven at 400 degrees for an hour) into about 100mls of warm/hot water and pour it into the brew and stir. This will base the brew, and will precipitate out a freebased full spectrum alkaloidal extract which can be encapsulated as is or further purified by using salt in a Manske procedure, re-based and then encapsulated.

But yeah, investigate your Caapi, stop wasting precious Mimosa (i know how it feels to waste it and i could slap myself silly for wasting all the materials i have), possibly look into getting some Acacia to try experimenting with so that you can get things working and then go back to the Mimosa when you know it will work, and if the vine still doesn't work for you, try the Rue, the Rue is potent and while it may not be "Ayahuasca" in a traditional sense, it certainly get's the job done.

Also investigate using 2 to 3 egg whites on a Caapi, Rue, Mimosa, Acacia, Chaliponga or even Chacruna brew, it cleans them up really well, and while the cleansed Rue tea will taste only a little bitter when mixed with something like sweet tea, the Acacia, Mimosa and Chaliponga i know for sure are quite tasteless when mixed with sweet tea or Lemon Balm tea. Just be sure not to use any acid to make the brews acidic if you're going to drink them, imho acidity is not necessary and only contributes to increasing a horrible taste and smell, whereas no acidity is just fine, practically tasteless and i know atleast the cleansed Acacia tea's can sit in the fridge for atleast 2 months without the need to be acidic to preserve it.

 

[Kash]

You are lucky the Aya didnt work, those are enormous dosages there. Sit down and do some reading so that you know you are brewing it right, and dont use any more than 8-10g mimosa for your first time. A 50g dose of mimosa could easily turn into a horror story for many people, it's no joke.


Here is the brewing tek that works for my friend every time using 8g mimosa and 3g Syrian Rue, both brewed fresh:

"All that is needed is a few 30 minute simmers. Make sure the herbs are well pulverized. The first simmer done with a little lemon juice (or vinegar), filter liquid, put plant material back in and add more water only and simmer. Repeat until the herbs are visibly exhuasted and the liquid has little to no color, and discard the herbs. 3x is usually enough. You can let this sit overnight to precipitate impurities if desired. Then simply reduce the brew down to a desired concentrated volume by boiling off water and enjoy. That is swim's prefered method anyhow.

IME it is nice to reduce brew down to a shot glass worth. Seems to eliminate nausea and makes the drinking painless. Just dont reduce it too far or it will be ruined."

 

[Mimosa_Man]

Are you brewing from the same batch of stuff you extracted from?

yes, going to brew tomorrow, 100g caapi vine adding 50g caapi leaf, just to be sure, then 5g MHRB powdered, the vine is also powdered.