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Pickling lime instead of lye?
- Thread starter w0mbat
- Start date
69ron says that you can do it. But sometimes the things he says seem too good to be true, lol
(SWIM is just thinking that cause SWIM's san pedro extraction didn't work with xylene like he said it would)
Anyway SWIM is going to try it the tek 69ron posted for sure when he gets his new batch of bark + d-limo. Just 20g first
SWIM will mix 20g of bark with 5g of lime. Add just enough water to make it wet. Mix for 5 min
Add 50 ml d-limonene + mix several times over an hour or more
Seperate bark and d-limo
Add 50 ml (probably too much but w/e) vinegar
Basify vinegar w/ sodium carbonate
First time pull with naptha and evaporate, if that works he will do the same with d-limo. ron says spice will taste citrusy!
SWIM knows he could have copied 69ron's quote or just to w0mbat to search for it...
But:
1. He like to memorize teks and writing helps.
2: He was a little bored
(SWIM is just thinking that cause SWIM's san pedro extraction didn't work with xylene like he said it would)
Anyway SWIM is going to try it the tek 69ron posted for sure when he gets his new batch of bark + d-limo. Just 20g first
SWIM will mix 20g of bark with 5g of lime. Add just enough water to make it wet. Mix for 5 min
Add 50 ml d-limonene + mix several times over an hour or more
Seperate bark and d-limo
Add 50 ml (probably too much but w/e) vinegar
Basify vinegar w/ sodium carbonate
First time pull with naptha and evaporate, if that works he will do the same with d-limo. ron says spice will taste citrusy!
SWIM knows he could have copied 69ron's quote or just to w0mbat to search for it...
But:
1. He like to memorize teks and writing helps.
2: He was a little bored
tropane
Rising Star
q21q21 said:
"xylene like he said it would" ...
Actually, most mescaline extraction teks call for xylene.
I'm oddly under the impression you may have mis-performed the tek,
or that one or more of your supplies were not up to par, possibly including your S.P.
[link, link, link, etc ....]
w0mbat said:
SWIM's working on it: Nontoxic Extraction Experimentation Log w/ Photos (tek WIP) - Advanced/Enhanced chemistry - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
Dimitrius
Rising Star
I use the tek posted by 69ron, only I substitute FASW(fumaric acid saturated water) for the vinegar.
Here's the version I have saved for myself (it's the original posts, copied & pasted; I changed some of the wording so that it flowed better for me, but it's still the same instructions.)
69ron's Food Grade DMT Tek
It's basically a double A/B.
Here are all the steps to end up with freebase DMT using just d-limonene:
1 - Powderize your mimosa bark. Mix 100 grams of bark with 25 grams of calcium hydroxide. Add enough water to make it feel wet but not watery. Mix thoroughly.
2 - Add 300 ml of d-limonene. Mix very thoroughly.. Let sit a few hours or overnight, mixing now and then (THOROUGHLY!!).
3 - Pour off the d-limonene through a filter.
4 - Add 25 ml of vinegar to the d-limonene. Mix thoroughly....i.e., the separatory funnel "cha cha".
4 option: instead of using vinegar, add 25 ml of FumaricAcidSaturatedWater (150mg fumaric acid per 25ml DH2O) for every 75 ml of d-limonene; mix gently, but thoroughly
5 - Separate the vinegar from the d-limonene (vinegar is bottom layer, d-limonene is top layer). This vinegar will contain DMT acetate. Evaporate your vinegar in a food dehydrator at 155 F to get sticky DMT acetate.
5 option: separate the FASW from the d-limonene (FASW is bottom layer, d-limonene is top layer); next, bring the DMT saturated FASW to near freezing and most of the excess fumaric acid will sink to the bottom of the water and can be filtered off; lastly, evaporate to reveal nearly pure DMT fumarate with traces of fumaric acid as the only contaminant.
6 - Repeat steps 4 & 5 at least 2-3 times,
7 - Repeat steps 2 - 6 at least 2 times.
Bufoman's Method of Removing Excess Fumaric Acid:
To separate the desirables from the fumaric acid one simply adds 12mL H2O per gram of material. (the DMT fumarate is soluble in the water while the fumaric acid is not).
The aqueous (now yellow) solution is carefully decanted into a clean beaker or drying surface.
The water is reduced by 1/2 with a hair drier and then allow to sit open to the air and slowly evaporate.
Within a day (at most) large transparent crystals will begin to precipitate out one can collect these. (If one does not care about ascetics the solution can just be rapidly evaporate with a hair drier or on the oven and the crystals utilized right away. However SWIM recommends the crystallization.)
The remaining solution is then reduced again with a hair drier and allowed to sit as before. Once it has fully evaporated the crystals can be collected.
One now has highly pure DMT fumarate. The crystals are very nice to look at. One can attempt to wash the fumaric acid crystals again with an additional 10mL of H2O to see if any crystals are obtained however due to its solubility most of the DMT fumarate will collect during the first attempt.
I've performed this tek twice, using FASW substitution, and the spice came out great. The yields were pretty good too. I'll find my notes. I also used it for chaliponga once, without any extra steps such as defatting...it came out nicely too. I have not done any bioassays with the mimosa or chaliponga fumarates, but I have tested a bit of changa saturated with freebase made from some of the mimosa fumarates...it's good!
....I have a nice neat little document containing the above tek along with freebasing methods and directions for changa preparation...if anyone wants to take a look at it...all food grade methods.
I'm getting too tired to type..... if I've forgotten to say something obvious or you want me to lend some more details, I look back later.
PEACE
Edit: oh yeah, in the step 5 option, I didn't bring the FASW to near freezing to remove the excess fumaric acid, I used the water recrystalization by Bufoman.
Here's the version I have saved for myself (it's the original posts, copied & pasted; I changed some of the wording so that it flowed better for me, but it's still the same instructions.)
69ron's Food Grade DMT Tek
It's basically a double A/B.
Here are all the steps to end up with freebase DMT using just d-limonene:
1 - Powderize your mimosa bark. Mix 100 grams of bark with 25 grams of calcium hydroxide. Add enough water to make it feel wet but not watery. Mix thoroughly.
2 - Add 300 ml of d-limonene. Mix very thoroughly.. Let sit a few hours or overnight, mixing now and then (THOROUGHLY!!).
3 - Pour off the d-limonene through a filter.
4 - Add 25 ml of vinegar to the d-limonene. Mix thoroughly....i.e., the separatory funnel "cha cha".
4 option: instead of using vinegar, add 25 ml of FumaricAcidSaturatedWater (150mg fumaric acid per 25ml DH2O) for every 75 ml of d-limonene; mix gently, but thoroughly
5 - Separate the vinegar from the d-limonene (vinegar is bottom layer, d-limonene is top layer). This vinegar will contain DMT acetate. Evaporate your vinegar in a food dehydrator at 155 F to get sticky DMT acetate.
5 option: separate the FASW from the d-limonene (FASW is bottom layer, d-limonene is top layer); next, bring the DMT saturated FASW to near freezing and most of the excess fumaric acid will sink to the bottom of the water and can be filtered off; lastly, evaporate to reveal nearly pure DMT fumarate with traces of fumaric acid as the only contaminant.
6 - Repeat steps 4 & 5 at least 2-3 times,
7 - Repeat steps 2 - 6 at least 2 times.
Bufoman's Method of Removing Excess Fumaric Acid:
To separate the desirables from the fumaric acid one simply adds 12mL H2O per gram of material. (the DMT fumarate is soluble in the water while the fumaric acid is not).
The aqueous (now yellow) solution is carefully decanted into a clean beaker or drying surface.
The water is reduced by 1/2 with a hair drier and then allow to sit open to the air and slowly evaporate.
Within a day (at most) large transparent crystals will begin to precipitate out one can collect these. (If one does not care about ascetics the solution can just be rapidly evaporate with a hair drier or on the oven and the crystals utilized right away. However SWIM recommends the crystallization.)
The remaining solution is then reduced again with a hair drier and allowed to sit as before. Once it has fully evaporated the crystals can be collected.
One now has highly pure DMT fumarate. The crystals are very nice to look at. One can attempt to wash the fumaric acid crystals again with an additional 10mL of H2O to see if any crystals are obtained however due to its solubility most of the DMT fumarate will collect during the first attempt.
I've performed this tek twice, using FASW substitution, and the spice came out great. The yields were pretty good too. I'll find my notes. I also used it for chaliponga once, without any extra steps such as defatting...it came out nicely too. I have not done any bioassays with the mimosa or chaliponga fumarates, but I have tested a bit of changa saturated with freebase made from some of the mimosa fumarates...it's good!
....I have a nice neat little document containing the above tek along with freebasing methods and directions for changa preparation...if anyone wants to take a look at it...all food grade methods.
I'm getting too tired to type..... if I've forgotten to say something obvious or you want me to lend some more details, I look back later.
PEACE
Edit: oh yeah, in the step 5 option, I didn't bring the FASW to near freezing to remove the excess fumaric acid, I used the water recrystalization by Bufoman.
Dimitrius
Rising Star
Let's see.....
These are the yields from the extractions done using the above posted tek.
1st extraction:
100g MHRB
result: 3g jurema fumarates (remember, this is after the water recrystalization)
2nd extraction:
40g Chaliponga
result: 0.76 chaliponga fumarates (after re-xstal)
3rd extraction:
125 MHRB
result: 3.7g jurema fumarates (after re-xstal)
These are pretty good yields aren't they?
MHRB was from Celestial Source. The Chaliponga was some pretty dated stuff from BBB.
These are the yields from the extractions done using the above posted tek.
1st extraction:
100g MHRB
result: 3g jurema fumarates (remember, this is after the water recrystalization)
2nd extraction:
40g Chaliponga
result: 0.76 chaliponga fumarates (after re-xstal)
3rd extraction:
125 MHRB
result: 3.7g jurema fumarates (after re-xstal)
These are pretty good yields aren't they?
MHRB was from Celestial Source. The Chaliponga was some pretty dated stuff from BBB.
69ron
Rising Star
q21q21 said:
Lime absolutely works for DMT extraction (as you can see from others here). SWIM has done it many times.
Also xylene works for San Pedro for sure. I guarantee that. I’m willing to bet $1,000,000,000,000 you did sometime wrong or had bunk cactus. That’s how sure I am. Xylene was once the preferred solvent for mescaline extraction. The d-limonene tech SWIM used was originally SWIM’s xylene tech which was later modified by SWIM to work with d-limonene.
w0mbat said:
SWIY could do it essentially the same way that it's done with cactus. So far, SWIM's gotten the minimum expected yield from ~150g with only one wash. The link posted above contains the details of his experimentation.
tryptographer
tryptamine photographer
I tried STB with lime:
SWIM can say with a great deal of confidence and evidence that lime works as well as--maybe even better than--lye STB, if used in a specific way.
SWIM's first lime trial's % yield is rivaling that of his simultaneous lye extraction (which is saying quite a bit, considering his excellent results thus-far) with two pulls on each. SWIM finds that this certainly seems to work when the lime and bark are whipped up into a doughy paste (as with cactus extraction), which would probably generally require that powdered bark is used (though SWIM suspects that it's poor water absorbance would still hinder the process unless mixed incredibly well with a slight excess of water); however, SWIM's managed to accomplish this with whole MHRB using a blender. This is only SWIM's first trial, and the bark had been treated with heat and vinegar prior to the use of lime; though SWIM suspects this is unnecessary and will attempt to verify this in his third trial.
Most seem to have a hard time extracting with a lime solution, but that amount of water really isn't necessary anyway. SWIM can hardly think of an extraction that would require immersing the plant material in a solution, in light of recent developments.
Interesting how the use of lime and limonene are coming to center stage with two of the most important substances for the psychonaut (DMT and Mescaline). Maybe these should be referred to as "limteks"--generally referring to nontoxic teks that use lime paste and limonene.
Edit:
SWIM can somewhat understand why nontoxic drytek techniques haven't quite caught on with DMT, as he's attempted drytek with MHRB, acetone and sodium carbonate and botched it, and also with lime, sodium carbonate, limonene, and chaliponga and didn't get decent yields at all. He realized that the problem was that the mixture wasn't quite homogeneous (not a problem with cactus, considering how well it absorbs water), and that's the realization that inspired his latest experiments. SWIM also believes that drytek doesn't always seem to work because it's difficult to judge whether the material has been completely basified prior to drying, which will halt the reaction altogether, leaving it with incredibly variable results. So a properly homogeneous mixture that can remain moist should yield more consistent results.
SWIM's first lime trial's % yield is rivaling that of his simultaneous lye extraction (which is saying quite a bit, considering his excellent results thus-far) with two pulls on each. SWIM finds that this certainly seems to work when the lime and bark are whipped up into a doughy paste (as with cactus extraction), which would probably generally require that powdered bark is used (though SWIM suspects that it's poor water absorbance would still hinder the process unless mixed incredibly well with a slight excess of water); however, SWIM's managed to accomplish this with whole MHRB using a blender. This is only SWIM's first trial, and the bark had been treated with heat and vinegar prior to the use of lime; though SWIM suspects this is unnecessary and will attempt to verify this in his third trial.
Most seem to have a hard time extracting with a lime solution, but that amount of water really isn't necessary anyway. SWIM can hardly think of an extraction that would require immersing the plant material in a solution, in light of recent developments.
Interesting how the use of lime and limonene are coming to center stage with two of the most important substances for the psychonaut (DMT and Mescaline). Maybe these should be referred to as "limteks"--generally referring to nontoxic teks that use lime paste and limonene.
Edit:
SWIM can somewhat understand why nontoxic drytek techniques haven't quite caught on with DMT, as he's attempted drytek with MHRB, acetone and sodium carbonate and botched it, and also with lime, sodium carbonate, limonene, and chaliponga and didn't get decent yields at all. He realized that the problem was that the mixture wasn't quite homogeneous (not a problem with cactus, considering how well it absorbs water), and that's the realization that inspired his latest experiments. SWIM also believes that drytek doesn't always seem to work because it's difficult to judge whether the material has been completely basified prior to drying, which will halt the reaction altogether, leaving it with incredibly variable results. So a properly homogeneous mixture that can remain moist should yield more consistent results.
69ron
Rising Star
amor_fati said:
If the tech is right, that is definitely true. Lye and lime have different properties that make them more suitable for different types of techs.
It’s all about using the base correctly. These are two very different bases. Lime is practically insoluble in everything while lye is soluble in many solvents. Lime tends to form lots of insoluble salts, while lye tends to cause highly soluble salts.
For example, lime is terrible for an A/B because of its low solubility in water, but lye is great for that. Lime is fantastic for a semi-dry STB tech when using cactus, but lye is HORRIBLE for that. With cactus, lime reacts with the mucilage forming insoluble solids. Lye can’t do this, so for a cactus based semi-dry STB, lime is perfect, while lye leads to a horrible sticky mess.
69ron
Rising Star
I like the term “limteks"!
Keep in mind that lime (calcium hydroxide) takes a long time to freebase alkaloids. Lye does this rapidly because it’s highly soluble in water. Lime can take several hours to completely freebase the alkaloids, and needs to be mixed often. The concentration of lime to dry herb should be very high to achieve good results.
The main problem with lime is it’s poor solubility in water. That’s why it must be mixed often and must be allowed to react for an extended amount of time. It’s best to let it react overnight while mixing periodically. Keep the mix slightly wet like a paste for best results.
Keep in mind that lime (calcium hydroxide) takes a long time to freebase alkaloids. Lye does this rapidly because it’s highly soluble in water. Lime can take several hours to completely freebase the alkaloids, and needs to be mixed often. The concentration of lime to dry herb should be very high to achieve good results.
The main problem with lime is it’s poor solubility in water. That’s why it must be mixed often and must be allowed to react for an extended amount of time. It’s best to let it react overnight while mixing periodically. Keep the mix slightly wet like a paste for best results.
