Please help me to figure out the "Rue + DMT" ratio

[Michal_R]

My dear Nexians,

I had started my Pharma journeying with Syrian Rue tea from 3g followed by 30mg of freebase DMT mixed in lemon juice. Slowly, I worked my way up to the deepest, most profound and healing psychedelic experience in my life at 3g of Rue + 70mg DMT (I am 6´2 tall with around 160 pounds, if that tells anything about my sensitivity to Rue/DMT).

I was thinking what would happen if I increased the dose of Rue to, let´s say 4g. My intuition tells me that I should lower the dose of DMT, but I am not sure how much exactly... Does it make any sense to increase the dose of Harmalas, anyways?

So I wanted to ask more seasoned Nexians what are your own experiences with finding the right "Rue + DMT" ratio? How does increasing dose of Harmalas affect the course of the experience?

Thanks a lot for your ideas.

 

[Jin]

it all depends on what you want to experience , the best way is to consume different doseages and know your sweet spot

for myself 2-2.5 g rue is enough , i generally drink 3gms of mimosa , this varies sometimes increasing it in doseage ,

however i never would increase my rue doseage ,

 

[Infundibulum]

The consensus is that more dmt increases the intensity of the experience whereas more harmalas increase the duration of the experience, without however having absolute proofs of said statements. Obviously, the more you up the harmalas the more you'll get the harmala character in the dmt trip.

3g of rue is going to be the equal to ~100-120mg of purified harmalas, which is enough for oral dmt activation in most people. Upping it to 4g will possibly make the trip slightly longer. Just note that the harmala character is just noticeable at 200mg and a definite major player of the trip at 500mg; however with whole, unpurified syrian rue going to such high doses (10-15g!) is strongly discouraged as it contains a fair amount of toxic crap as well.

 

[Jees]

I think the 3 gr rue is quite ideal, good duration + not too much rue character. If I would like to extend then rather take another 50 mg (1 gr equivalent) rue-extract after some hours. Upping rue from the start gives too much rue influence for my tasting.
Just give the idea of a second serve a thought, for both rue and light.

 

[Michal_R]

Thanks a lot for your replies, I really appreciate your comments.

... however i never would increase my rue doseage

I think the 3 gr rue is quite ideal, good duration + not too much rue character...

The consensus is that more dmt increases the intensity of the experience whereas more harmalas increase the duration of the experience... the more you up the harmalas the more you'll get the harmala character in the dmt trip...

 

[SHroomtroll]

I think it could be a good idea to do several smaller doses instead of doing more at the same time.

Like 3g rue and 50-100mg dmt and then just repeat the dose after a hour or two, that way you can feel the trip out before going all in

 

[jamie]

"3g of rue is going to be the equal to ~100-120mg of purified harmalas, which is enough for oral dmt activation in most people. Upping it to 4g will possibly make the trip slightly longer. Just note that the harmala character is just noticeable at 200mg and a definite major player of the trip at 500mg; however with whole, unpurified syrian rue going to such high doses (10-15g!) is strongly discouraged as it contains a fair amount of toxic crap as well."

3g of rue is way above the level for activating oral DMT for me. Even 1g can activate DMT though it takes a bit more DMT for me at that level, and the experience is short which at times is ideal. I know there are others who are the same. 2oomg is also definatly above the level where harmalas show their character for me..for me thats like 50-75 mg's maybe. It is best for people to just start low I think and figure out what their dose is becasue it can varry a lot. I have seen doses all over the place personally while drinking with others.

"I think it could be a good idea to do several smaller doses instead of doing more at the same time.

Like 3g rue and 50-100mg dmt and then just repeat the dose after a hour or two, that way you can feel the trip out before going all in"

This is not a super good idea IMO. You do NOT want to be redosing 3g of rue after an hour or 2 if you have not worked your way into doses like that more slowly. 6g of rue is enough to make some people sick as hell for like 10-12 hours. I would not redose more than 1g of rue after an hour..and I would also not redose the same ammount of DMT as you origionally took. Recipe for disaster when you dont even know what to expect..trust me I have made that mistake once..redosing equal ammounts of rue and mimosa. It all hit me 3 hours in and was way way way too much for me.

Also, more harmalas can absolutly definatly increase the intensity beyond what most people can imagine, if you ingest enough of them. It's not so simple as saying that more harmalas increase the durration. There is a point at which more harmalas can make the whole thing take a different direction entirely in my expereince. It will last longer sure, but it's not the only difference. There is a point with harmalas where they have a complete carrier wave of thier own it seems and it makes the experiencce turn into a full on OBE sort of event that lasts hours with tons of sickness. At these doses there is weird stuff going on, like real people appearing in the room talking to you..dead people etc. For me it felt very much like Iboga reports I have read. This was only a lighter dose of DMT for me also..and just way way too much harmalas..which in turn brought out the full potential of such a low dose of DMT but it was compounded inside of this really really really heavy harmala trip that I dont think anyone would find pleasant. It is just sort of like you hold on to your sanity as much as you can till it's over.

 

[Michal_R]

Jamie, thanks for sharing your experience with us, its greatly appreciated :thumb_up: After doing some more reading I think I will actually start lowering my Harmala dose to see what will happen (how the nature + duration of the experience will get affected).

I just read Jorkest´s latest post in which he suggests ingesting harmalas + DMT all at the same time

Pharma Fail - Help please... - Pharmahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

In this case, I will probably stick to Jorkest´s suggestion to lower dose of DMT.

Is there anyone else experienced with taking Harmalas and DMT at the same time?

 

[chocobeastie]

Also, remember Rue doesn't contain a standard amount of beta-carbolines, different batches of rue and going to have different effects and contain differing amounts of beta-carbolines.

 

[Ilex]

Personally I found that increasing dosages of syrian rue up to 5 grams causes a noticeable increase in the potentiation of tryptamines. I don't like to go over 5 grams, as it starts to feel like overkill. The "harmala intoxication" of dizzyness, nausea and loss of coordinated motor activity starts to dominate the trip if you take too much syrian rue. Your mileage may vary, depending on potency of your plant material and individual biochemistry. My body handles higher doses of syrian rue well, but some people find even 2-3 grams is too much.