• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Possible change in solubility and crystallization behavior after separation of harmine and harmaline

Jan e Kharabat

Established member
I observed something strange in my recent extraction. Both harmine and harmaline started to behave differently after separation. Before separation they were very easily soluble in water and didn't crash out too soon during manske. After separation, they became less soluble and started to crash out almost instantly during manske.

I thought it had something to do with adding salt directly, so I made a hot saturated salt solution. Initially the solution stayed stable and nothing crashed out, but just about 30 minutes later, the entire thing became a solid block with a pudding like consistency. I left it standing and after a day, dandelion like crystals began to form within the pudding like structure. Another strange thing I noticed was that there were two darker points in the pudding like structure which were the starting points of crystallization. So the pudding was actually two very big fluff balls of crystals, but the needles were too thin and fine. But what perplexes me is how multiple dandelions began to grow from those two big crystals. As if the already formed crystals started to come together and form thicker needles... This was with harmaline.

With harmine I noticed a stronger decline in solubility and it became even more difficult to perform manske. But then I increased the volume of the solution while keeping the same salt concentration, and now I have a cluster of thick needles, but it seems like a good amount of harmine hasn't crystalized. This suggests an interesting interplay between salt concentration and the volume of the solution. I also noticed this in a previous extraction 2 years ago but I thought I was simply doing something wrong.

Has anyone else noticed something similar?
 
Thanks for sharing this fascinating observation. Did you get any pictures? This would be a prime candidate for some time-lapse cinematography.

Mixtures of substance can certainly display different solubility properties compared to each individual compound. Have you searched the literature for similar observations? It's conceivable that a report of results like this may be buried somewhere in the Nexus archives, too.

I've only Manske'd the mixed harmalas myself, but we should all earmark this one to watch out for in our next harmala extractions.
 
I was too caught up in multiple things and forgot to take pictures... I also noticed that the harmala acetate is much more soluble than the HCl. I'll run a few more tests and will try to measure the solubilities.
I haven't looked for any literature on this so far, but I'll see if I can find something.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom