Possible new sources for tryptamines - a workthread

[Ginkgo]

I feel we really need to use time on finding more plants with tryptamines, plants that possibly can be used as sources for our favored entheogens. If we create a good enough list, people in nearly all corners of the world should be able to grow plants with these alkaloids. It will also make the job of our enemy harder.

This is a workthread dedicated to this project. The list is far from complete, but slow and steady more plants and more information about current plants will be added. Please feel free to contribute!


Urtica pilulifera – roman nettle

Regula, I. (1972):
Bufotenine


Codariocalyx motorius syn. Desmodium motorius – telegraph plant, samaphore plant

Banerjee & Ghoshal (1969):
DMT, Ca 0.6% 5-MeO-DMT (0.06% wet)

Papers needed: Banerjee & Ghosal (1969), Ghosal & Banerjee (1969)


Dutaillyea drupacea

Shulgin (1997) - TiHKAL:
0.45% 5-MeO-DMT


Tetradium ruticarpum syn. Evodia rutaecarpa

Lightsource:
0.08% yield from fruits, likely around 0.04% 5-MeO-DMT
Extraction said to be an easy A/B


Phyllodium pulchellum syn. Desmodium pulchellum

0.2% 5-MeO-DMT, trace DMT-n-oxide

Papers needed: Ghosal & Muhkerjee (1966)


Cyathobasis fruticulosa - izombe

Shulgin (1997): - TiHKAL
DMT and NMT in the trunk bark.

Bahçeevli et al. (2005):
A tryptamine, a beta-carboline, two phenylethylamines (one of them is N-methyl-N-formyl-4-hydroxy-β-phenylethylamine)

Papers needed: Bahçeevli et al. (2005)


Vepris ampody

Ott (1993) - Pharmacotheon:
Over 0.2% DMT in leaves and branches

Papers needed: Kan-Fan et al. (1970)


Zanthoxylum arborescens

Grina et al. (1982):
DMT (major alkaloid) and NMT in leaves

Papers needed: Grina et al. (1982)


Evodia fargesii

Qu et al. (2005):
Bufotenine-n-oxide

Papers needed: Qu et al. (2005)


Testulea gabonensis

Leboeuf et al. (1977):
DMT

Papers needed: Leboeuf et al. (1977)


Likely not suitable
This is the section for plants that was thought of as potential sources, but turned out to not be suitable due to too low content of tryptamines.

Mucuna pruriens - velvet bean
Too low concentration of tryptamines, although a great source for L-DOPA.

Ghosal et al. (1971):
Bufotenine, 5-MeO-DMT, DMT, DMT-n-oxide and 1 unknown beta-carboline found in pods, seeds, leaves and roots
0.006% DMT, 0.0025% 5-MeO-DMT, 0.003% DMT-n-oxide in leaves

Szabo (2003):
0.000034 to 0.000279% 5-MeO-DMT, 0.00005 to 0.000829% bufotenine, no DMT
All parts of 20 different plants from different sources were tested.

Papers needed: Ghosal et al. (1971)


In addition to these, we have the not so commonly used Acacia, Phalaris and Arundo, but I feel they are all far from unknown now.

Please feel free to contribute!

 

[69ron]

Velvet bean (Mucuna pruriens) is also known to contain bufotenine. I’ve heard that it's added to some ayahuasca.

 

[69ron]

From Erowid

"Over two thousand years ago the Ayurvedic physician Sushruta wrote in the Sushruta Samhita (one of the two key texts of Ayurvedic medicine) that Mucuna combined with Tribulus terrestris is a powerful aphrodisiac and tonic. Mucuna contains DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, and Bufotenin (amongst other alkaloids) and Tribulus terrestris contains harmine, an MAOI."

"It has been reported that smoking the leaves of M. pruriens in a joint leads to a tryptamine buzz [Ayahuasca Analogues 2000] and that ingestion of 3 g of P. harmala prior to the smoking may produce colorful geometric patterns."

 

[Ginkgo]

Thank you, very good. I have updated the first post with the information I could find by a quick look on Mucuna pruriens.

 

[Touche Guevara]

Velvet bean (Mucuna pruriens) is also known to contain bufotenine. I’ve heard that it's added to some ayahuasca.

Doesn't oral bufo result in dramatic increases in the negative side effects, nausea, etc? Or is it supposedly used in sub-active doses to potentiate the rest of the brew?

 

[Dimitrius]

From Erowid

"Over two thousand years ago the Ayurvedic physician Sushruta wrote in the Sushruta Samhita (one of the two key texts of Ayurvedic medicine) that Mucuna combined with Tribulus terrestris is a powerful aphrodisiac and tonic. Mucuna contains DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, and Bufotenin (amongst other alkaloids) and Tribulus terrestris contains harmine, an MAOI."

"It has been reported that smoking the leaves of M. pruriens in a joint leads to a tryptamine buzz [Ayahuasca Analogues 2000] and that ingestion of 3 g of P. harmala prior to the smoking may produce colorful geometric patterns."

I once smoked a bit of Mucuna pruriens powder in a bowl of green...twice actually. A friend tried it also. We both experienced definite tryptamine buzz. That weirdness in the head and an alteration to the vision. I'm not sure from what part of the plant it was.

It was this: http://www.chknutrition.com/D5Mucuna/index.html

I'm not sure if that's an extract or just standardized plant matter, but I still have a lot of it and can get as much as I like.

If anyone can suggest an experiment, I'd be happy to carry it out.

Materials at hand:

- calcium hydroxide
- sodium carbonate
- dry IPA
- dry acetone
- limonene
- heptane
- fumaric acid

 

[69ron]

Velvet bean (Mucuna pruriens) is also known to contain bufotenine. I’ve heard that it's added to some ayahuasca.

Doesn't oral bufo result in dramatic increases in the negative side effects, nausea, etc? Or is it supposedly used in sub-active doses to potentiate the rest of the brew?

Oral bufotenine, if used in quantities large enough to cause visual effect is nauseating throughout the whole experience. It's very unpleasant. A small dose orally, like about 50 mg or so, is very pleasant, stimulating and doesn't cause side effects. It produces lots of euphoria, especially when combined with coffee or other stimulants. At psychedelic doses, it's unpleasant orally, especially with harmala alkaloids.

I think they add very small amounts of it. I can't imagine it being used orally for its own visual effects.

I once smoked a bit of Mucuna pruriens powder in a bowl of green...twice actually. A friend tried it also. We both experienced definite tryptamine buzz. That weirdness in the head and a alteration to the vision. I'm not sure from what part of the plant it was.

That's very interesting. How much was smoked?

SWIM is going to have to investigate this one. It's pretty easy to get hold of this herb.

Does anyone know exactly how much bufotenine is present in this plant? If so, what part has the most bufotenine?

 

[Dimitrius]

I once smoked a bit of Mucuna pruriens powder in a bowl of green...twice actually. A friend tried it also. We both experienced definite tryptamine buzz. That weirdness in the head and an alteration to the vision. I'm not sure from what part of the plant it was.

That's very interesting. How much was smoked?

Well, one capsule being 300mg, I'd estimate we probably used approx. 75mg (1/4 capsule) per bowl. We might have smoked two bowls between the two of us. Mind you this was 6+ years ago.

So I'd say for one person to get this tryptamine buzz, ~75-100mg of this powder was smoked. It was mild, but distinct.

 

[Ginkgo]

Okay, the first post has been updated with a few new species. There is a lot of papers needed, it would really help if someone with access to them could post them here, or send them to me.

 

[69ron]

I have mixed feelings about this thread.

Aren't we just building a list for the DEA, FDA and other troublesome groups to look at? You know there are likely members of both agencies here as members of the Nexus.

 

[Ginkgo]

While I do understand and appreciate your concerns, remember that this is not new information. If you take a quick web search, you will find a huge list with plants that contain DMT and DMT analogs. If the authorities are looking at this site, why wouldn't they have looked at that list that is found on many, many websites (including some old posts on the DMT-Nexus)? And why shouldn't they take a quick search after dimethyltryptamine in Google Scholar and write down all the plants, if they take the time to search forums like this?

 

[69ron]

Well if we're making a list for them, they don't need to do the work.

 

[69ron]

You don't know. Maybe I work for the DEA. Maybe I visit these forums to get leads just like this. Maybe I want to see what the next “Yopo” will be for people on the Nexus so that I can prepare to attack a vendor selling it.

I don’t know. I have mixed feeling about this. I thought the same about Pharmacotheon by Ott. It was a list of plants for the FDA and DEA to use to attack vendors with.

 

[Ginkgo]

Well, most of these plants have been a long, long time on the huge list I am talking about. You can find the list on Wikipedia, DMT-Nexus Wiki, Drugs-Forum, Neurosoup, and many, many other websites. What makes you think they will for some reason choose exactly the list we are making here?

 

[69ron]

I have the same feeling about those other lists. I'm not sure they should be posted either.

 

[soulfood]

Surely the whole point of this post is for people to hopefully be able to pick a plant that is best for them to grow locally so the need to go to vendors is eliminated?

I love the idea.

 

[Ginkgo]

69ron: Well, I feel this list will not make things worse. Not at all. I don't think the lists available have created any laws, except maybe Louisiana Act No 159. I do not think a new list here will create any new problems, as similar lists are available on websites that are a lot more known than this forum.

Soulfood: Yeah, that is the idea! This is not intended as a list for vendors to get new products, the intention is to provide a list of plants that enables next to everyone to grow sources for tryptamines. The idea is that we later will add cultivation info for every plant.

 

[Ginkgo]

This paper from Szabo (2003) demonstrates that the content of tryptamines in Mucuna pruriens is incredibly low. 5-MeO-DMT was found in concentrations of 0.000034 to 0.000279% and bufotenine in concentrations of 0.00005 to 0.000829%. No DMT was detected. Ghosal et al. (1971) also showed incredibly low content, although not that low: 0.006% DMT, 0.0025% 5-MeO-DMT and 0.003% DMT-n-oxide.

How can then a "definite tryptamine buzz" be experienced with smoked M. pruriens powder? It for sure can't be because of DMT, 5-MeO-DMT or bufotenine. Remember that M. pruriens contain incredibly high amount of L-DOPA. Side-effects for L-DOPA includes, according to Wikipedia, both hallucinations (auditory and/or visual) and increased libido. The L-DOPA content is therefore the best bet for the noted hallucinogenic effects and it's historic use as an aphrodisiac.

I think we can rule this one out as a potential source for tryptamines, although it is a great source for L-DOPA.

 

[69ron]

Tetradium ruticarpum syn. Evodia rutaecarpa

Lightsource:
0.8% 5-MeO-DMT in fruits
Extraction said to be an easy A/B

0.8% 5-MeO-DMT is not correct. That's super potent. The amount of stuff extracted was 0.08% (80 mg from 100 grams), and judging by the effects that was maybe only 50% active, so we’re looking at a number more like 0.04% or less of active tryptamines.

 

[69ron]

This paper from Szabo (2003) demonstrates that the content of tryptamines in Mucuna pruriens is incredibly low. 5-MeO-DMT was found in concentrations of 0.000034 to 0.000279% and bufotenine in concentrations of 0.00005 to 0.000829%. No DMT was detected. Ghosal et al. (1971) also showed incredibly low content, although not that low: 0.006% DMT, 0.0025% 5-MeO-DMT and 0.003% DMT-n-oxide.

Some Cebil is that low. I think more tests should be done. It could have been a very weak batch that was tested in both cases. From the user reports I read it sounds like it has more than that.