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Possible Serotonin syndrome?

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Jan e Kharabat

Jan e Kharabat

Established member
About a year ago I took around 25-30mg of Harmine.HCl sublingually and vaped around 15-20mg DMT after about 15-20 minutes. The trip itself was fine and didn't last as long either, but during the final part where things become more fluid etc. I started to feel cold. Within a minute I started to shiver, I felt cold like I never had before, I was badly shivering, I had nausea, I felt weak and dizzy, couldn't keep my eyes open. I kept hearing strange sounds, buzzing and whirring, as if a motor was running in my head. I was alone and couldn't do anything, I was moaning with every breath. I thought I would die... and at one point had to make my peace with everything. This went on for about 20-30 minutes before things started to get better. After another 30 minutes I was able to get up and drink some water. I felt extremely exhausted and my head felt heavy, but after another hour I was all good again. I thought this probably had something to do with the fact that I took DMT only after 15 min and didn't wait for 40 minutes like I usually do. I couldn't think of any other explanation, I was not on any medication, hadn't taken any other substance nor any tyramine rich foods.

Never before had something like this happened, although I would get mild nausea after DMT and my gut would grumble a bit but that happened even without harmalas, but nothing too serious. Things went back to normal after that, until last night... I took 1 teaspoon of harmala seeds, which would have been no more than 3g, simmered for 30 min, drank the tea, and 90 min later vaped around 15mg of DMT. The trip was very mild and didn't last longer than 5-6 min, and once again, as soon as the DMT went away, I felt cold, although not as cold as the first time. The symptoms were similar, but not as severe, auditory hallucinations, sounds of a motor or some electric device running inside me, nausea, intestines growling, dizziness, difficulty keeping my eyes open, and close eyed visuals... The difference this time was that although the symptoms were relatively mild, they went on for around 3 hours! Even the CEVs lasted for more than 3 hours. Afterwards I felt exhausted, I don't know when I fell asleep, and today my head felt heavy all day, there was heaviness behind my eyes.

I don't know what to make of this, I don't take any meds, nor any other substances. My psychedelic use (excluding DMT) is limited to 3-4 times a year, I smoke weed twice a month or less, and as for DMT, I take it once or twice in 2-3 months. Yesterday I took DMT over 4 hours after eating, probably 5. I ate around 300g of yoghurt and müsli (it had some nuts in it, but not that many), could that have been the reason?

If anyone can help me understand this, I would be grateful!
 
It's not Serotonin Syndrome, but those effects are just effects of Harmalas, i get them quite regularly. The only thing that really bothers me is the cold flashes, i start feeling really cold even though the room is warm and i get up under a blanket and then feel a mixture of internally cold but externally warm and it just sucks, it does pass but i would recommend experimenting with adding some different like herbal teas or supplements or something to the mix, because while i can't remember which ones, some things i've combined with Harmalas seemed to counteract that cold flash thing, maybe even try eating something spicy perhaps? hot sauce?

It's nothing to do with foods though, there's really no food or Tyramine interactions with Harmalas as they are reversible and selective MAO-A inhibitors aka RIMA's, unlike the older irreversible and non-selective MAOI's which do require Tyramine restrictions. I haven't ever avoided anything dietarily and i regularly consume very large quantities of Harmalas (thanks reverse tolerance) lol, if there were dietary interactions, i would know by now, plus others have also put that to the test. So dietary wise there's no issues there.

One thing i will mention though is that sometimes i've gotten cold flashes and shivering outside of Harmalas which turned out to be an infection, and sometimes that can even be an early indication of some kind of sepsis where an infection gets into the bloodstream, in fact when i almost died from Salmonella Sepsis when i was 17, the cold flashes and shivering i experienced/felt was the exact thing that saved my life, even though beforehand i had some weird hallucinations and very weird dreams the night before, once that shivering and coldness hit i knew something was going on and went to the ER, then got transferred to a better hospital because the local one i went to wanted to keep me in observation for 24 hours because they couldn't figure out what was wrong with me, and when i got to the other hospital my organs started shutting down/failing, i was severely dehydrated (i remember that), then they figured out i had Salmonella that had somehow seeded in my spleen and my spleen was enlarged trying to maintain it i guess and so they had to drain my spleen which whatever gunk came out of there was the most foul smelling shit i have ever smelled in my life, enough to wake me straight up from the anesthesia i had prior to the spleen drain, even made a pregnant nurse vomit down the hallway hahahaha, then they gave me anti-biotics for the infection and i got better.

Long story short, and not saying you're septic or are gonna die lol, but cold and shivering can also be an indication of some sort of infection, and it could just be from that or you might be mildly septic. Thing is though, you might not normally notice this unless you take Harmalas, because Harmalas have anti-microbial properties and ime at least anti-microbials of many kinds can temporarily "flare up" certain organisms, and so it may seem transient and may only flare up when you take Harmalas, or perhaps certain other anti-microbials. But with that said, cold flashes and shivering are reported to be "normal" effects of Harmalas, however it's worth checking out the microbial factor too imo, just in case.
 
But yeah the dizziness, auditory hallucinations/sounds, nausea/vomiting, muscle weakness/relaxation, some sleepiness/sedation/dreaminess, closed eyed visual imagery, etc, all that is par for the course and nothing out of the ordinary.
 
I get really cold on tryptamines. I can feel when a small dose of mushrooms has started to kick when I start getting cold. With vaped DMT I always curl under my blankets from the cold I feel.

I believe it is quite a common experience as I was curious about this before and have read of a few people reporting coldness with tryptamines.

Just adding this to mention that it could be the DMT causing you to feel cold.
 
I don't know... I mean I do usually feel cold but that first time was way too extreme! I have never shivered like that even in the worst case of fever. My teeth were clattering, and my entire body was jittering like crazy, even under a blanket. And then the dizziness, fatigue, nausea etc. and all that, just from 30mg of Harmine? And it wasn't even Harmaline... I did 350mg of harmalas plus 80mg DMT orally once and it was nothing in comparison!

but I dunno, DMT is always very unexpected for me... so the day after the last episode I did DMT again, without harmalas. Nothing happened for the first few minutes even after vaping 20mg. Then I got up, reloaded the vape, took another hit and all of a sudden there was a static image in front of my eyes. I had absolutely no physical sensations, no ringing in my ears, none of the physical effects of DMT, just a plain wooden block in front of my eyes which wouldn't move. A minute or so later I moved my head and some structures seemed to emerge out of it, then another 2-3 minutes later things started to move, I got some mild physical sensations, still no ringing in my ears though. I got up and took another big hit, and then things started. But still... no ringing in the ears, no annoying entities which I almost always meet, the whole thing was just... extremely beautiful and very sexual, I have never had a trip which was so erotic. My only conclusion is... DMT likes to play with me! The next day I took around 50mg and just had very mild effects and those annoying entities again. And just 2 weeks ago I had a breakthrough experience on 10mg... but that was also strange because the trip started around 2 minutes after inhaling... I don't get it!
 
This is not a serotonine syndrome. I had these effect on harmalas + DMT trip sometimes, and had on pure DMT either. I think it has a place because of serotonine system and DMT interaction with it, since serotonine system is responsible for feeling of cold and shivering and DMT is similar to serotonine. I love it by the way. I imagine like God shakes myself and I get cosmic energy and it's kind of payment for the trip and connection with hyperspace realm. I never had this reacion during warm and hot weather, only during the winter when the teperature at home is lower. I think this reaction is normal, particularly if the person is sensitive. People shiver on bufotenine as well, I've seen it. These substances are highly frequentive systems which helping us to resontate with the universe and see some other realms.
 
So... I got annoyed and decided to experiment some more, I took DMT 2 more times last week, and both times I got sever stomach cramps... Too bad I cannot just go to a doctor and ask them what's up. DMT has changed a lot for me. Initially, the come up used to be way too strong, never had any nausea, stomach pains, dizziness etc. always felt all happy after coming back. Then there was a phase when it either just won't work, or a small dose would blow me away. And now I get dizzy, and stomach cramps... I stopped taking DMT around 18 months ago. I had an experience after which I felt... Completely content! Ever since, I rarely take it, and almost always have nausea and mild stomach cramps. But in between I have experiences which are really really good, but it's always unexpected... But now the stomach cramps have gotten almost unbearable...
 
Unless I'm mistaken, isn't yogurt one of the contrindications for maoi's? Even the reversible kind can have short term poisonous effects when combined with yogurt, cheese, pickled fish, ect.(tyramine containing stuff). Or am I mistaken?
 
YTXian said:
Unless I'm mistaken, isn't yogurt one of the contrindications for maoi's? Even the reversible kind can have short term poisonous effects when combined with yogurt, cheese, pickled fish, ect.(tyramine containing stuff). Or am I mistaken?
Click to expand...

From my experience from drinking rue regularly for a few years, with RIMAs it doesn't seem to make much difference. I didn't change my diet and eat my share of things like cured meats, which are high in tyramine often times. I had no issues.

Granted, this is anecdotal. :)

One love
 
Thank you Voidmatrix. Good to know this and hear it from someone whose knowledge I respect.
 
Ok so for whatever reason... It's all better now!

I wasn't doing well, my depression came back and at times it was as severe as it used to be before I found DMT. So I turned to DMT hoping it would help... But then that happened. I still kept doing DMT because I was annoyed... And for whatever reason, now it has gotten all better, no stomach cramps, just a mild discomfort in the chest and stomach, and with harmala I feel more sedated and get mild CEVs for almost an hour, but other than that it's all good. DMT and I have a weird relationship...
 
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