Post-Toad Journey Introduction, Reflection, & Moving Forward

[Lopsided Nobody]

I posted a similar thing over at 5 Hive since this concerns 5-MeO-DMT and that's more for all things toad, that said...

I had my first DMT experience of any sort coming on six months ago. It was profound and awesome and intense and all the things it was described as being and yet which words would not ever really do justice to. I also went in fairly blind as far as people's accounts of 5MeO, but went with a professional guide. My experience (copied from 5 Hive) is below if anybody is interested, and formatted in case anybody wishes to skip it.

I had my first toad experience in February. My experience was awe inspiring and very positive, and felt like becoming one with everything, losing connection with my body and identity. There was some slight instinctive resistance, but overall it was as smooth as what was a violent storm of an experience can be. I did three rounds, the first one was probably a moderate does. The second and third were larger doses and that's where I felt like I was one with God and the Universe and all creation and the Divine. Not a bad way to spend a Saturday afternoon, eh? The third felt unnecessary, but I wanted that to use for moving forward.

I did not experience God as an entity so much as, well, everything. And my guide described it as we are all God experiencing through ourselves. For me it felt like we are from the universe, but along those lines. It also felt like what I would describe as a "born again" washing away of everything. There was a rocketing away from our consensually shared reality, a dissolution of self, then an experience of what felt like clarity before my nervous system reconnected with my body. It really felt a LOT like what Christians describe as being born again, only in a highly visceral and experiential way.

My guide said for most people the effects tend to last for a year and then after a year a second round is useful as a reminder of what was learned/experienced. I also suspect that revisiting that experience after a year can help me reflect on the changes made, what old patterns I may have fallen into, and perhaps having the wisdom of the first experience and some time I may find something else comes from it. At worst, it will be a powerful experience and a reminder of...well, whatever the hell you want to call it.

As for my question, I am curious what those of you who do 5-MeO-DMT with any regularity, or who have simply done additional sessions after your first experience, have found you got out of it.

In a sense, it feels like I climbed the mountain, met or communed with God/Existence/whatever, and had the clear thought that nothing would ever be the same. There is both a sense of "what now?" as well as a sense of "What more am I really looking for from this?" There does not seem to be a need which I find is a great space to be in. Those questions are not meant to be negative at all, but rather open-ended questions to which I likely do not have a real concrete answer to. However, I am also open to having it be something I may learn from. Another psychonaut friend of mine does psychedelics twice a year as a sacrament and that also holds some resonance. I do not want do it just to do it, however I also like the idea of some sacred purpose. If I never do it again, I feel very much at peace with that. If repeat experiences somehow offer something of value, I am also very open to that as well.

Since then, thus far, it's been balancing the felt sense that we are all of the divine, or of the same substance, and yet I am also "me." The experience both raises questions and offers, not necessarily "knowledge" so much as an experience. For me it a very "unitive" experience, both feeling one with creation but also getting a sense that we are all connected and part of everything (which is obvious in some regards, but certainly felt profound in the moment). I am me and yet a part of me, and "me" did not exist. I also felt like "ego death" was a misnomer of sorts. There was a dissolution or destruction of self, and yes an "oh, fuck, what did I just do!" moment when it really kicks in. However, there was not a "death" in the classical sense so much as an uncoupling or dissolution of the part that creates identity. To me there was still a sense of experience and thought. It was beautiful and rather than "death" in a traditional/biological sense (at least as I was internally representing it) so much as it was just profoundly different, so to speak.

I suppose my takeaway from that at present is what do I take from that, and how can/do I keep using that experience to (as Rising Spirit pot it) "polish the mirror of my soul?" Not that there is an easy ready-made answer for that, but it's something to consider. I also feel like the immediate post-integration was great, but it is an experience that I am still mulling over and think about quite regularly. I have since done ketamine-assisted therapy out of curiosity and found it useful but less profound. I have also found that since my toad journey cannabis feels significantly more profound, like I've learned how to let go or disassociate as a result of my toad journey.

My question for moving forward (rhetorical or otherwise) is where do I go from here? I plan on at least one more toad session next year. That's based on the recommendation of my guide, and to remind myself of the lessons or wisdom gleaned from the experience. After that, I am not sure if it is something I will continue to do regularly as a sacrament, leave myself open to psychedelics if/as they call me, or if that will wrap that up, so to speak. There does not feel like any need as such. If they are useful to me I am open to it. However, there is the sense of having climbed the mountain, met with or experienced meeting God or being one with everything, and getting what I was looking for. I do not feel a need to do it again just for kicks, however it was a powerful and incredible experience. I am also open to ayahuasca or psilocybin as ways to learn something from those medicines, or at lower doses to allow for personal or spiritual growth without needing to dissolve into non-duality per se.

I would also be curious what people's long-term impacts are from DMT or 5MeO, either after one powerful breakthrough experience or after developing a relationship with these medicines.

 

[Here&Now]

Hey there, welcome! Nice intro and nice trip report. Sounds like you dove all the way in with 5-MeO-DMT.

If you want to continue extracting depth after a toad breakthrough, I guess the only answer I can think of would be to take up a sober meditation practice. After all, that experience you had during the breakthrough is equivalent to what someone could repeatedly access by using meditation, so the two go hand-in-hand.

Also, I've posted a ton about this particular topic, so maybe look through some of my history for a more detailed answer.

Here's a good thread: 5-MeO-DMT - Hype or Hyperbole?

 

[Lopsided Nobody]

If you want to continue extracting depth after a toad breakthrough, I guess the only answer I can think of would be to take up a sober meditation practice. After all, that experience you had during the breakthrough is equivalent to what someone could repeatedly access by using meditation, so the two go hand-in-hand.

Also, I've posted a ton about this particular topic, so maybe look through some of my history for a more detailed answer.

Thanks for that. In the thread you posted, you mentioned the following:

If you're an aspiring meditation practitioner and you're hoping to experience an extremely powerful state of samadhi as a reference point, then it fits the bill 100%.

That's a pretty good good description of what I am looking for. I do self-hypnosis and meditation (essentially revivify the memory of the 5-MeO-DMT journey) as a way of further integrating and just tapping into that sort of experience. I will look more in depth at the thread you posted and your search history, so if this is answered there feel free to just nudge me in that direction. I would also happily take any threads or keywords to search for in the forum.

In the off chance you haven't previously addressed it, I have two questions (and if you have feel free to tell me to just keep diving in).

First, you've done 100+ 5-MeO-DMT trips. What are your thoughts or recommendations as far as doing one or two versus developing a more ongoing or deeper relationship with the substance over a larger number of journeys? And if you are willing to discuss it, what was your motivation in doing so?

Second, are there any tips for anchoring that "samadhi" as a reference point, or otherwise making that state more accessible in meditation after the journey(s)? I think it's such a powerful and amazing state that being able to more readily and fully reference or access it would be useful. I can still kind of get there, and sometimes it's more profound than others, but if there are any good rules of thumb for going there more fully post-session I would love to hear them.

Beyond that, thanks again. I appreciate the response and found that thread pretty interesting thus far.

 

[Here&Now]

Sure, happy to answer some questions.

First, you've done 100+ 5-MeO-DMT trips. What are your thoughts or recommendations as far as doing one or two versus developing a more ongoing or deeper relationship with the substance over a larger number of journeys? And if you are willing to discuss it, what was your motivation in doing so?

Depending how serious you are about utilizing 5-MeO-DMT as a booster for meditation, I'd say multiple trips are pretty much a requirement for significant growth. As you'll read in some of my posts, there's a cumulative effect to the changes it'll make. That state you experienced is itself a kind of tool for purifying the body/mind of an individual, and that applies whether it's reached while sober or via 5-MeO-DMT. Repeated exposure will eventually bring you to a point where a piece of that selfless feeling of unification will bleed backwards into your everyday life, which will be an indicator that the illusory barrier between it and yourself is beginning to wear thin.

There are risks to frequent use, though. Essentially, you want to be careful about overdoing it, or there could be temporary periods of extreme discomfort (often called reactivations) that'll be disruptive to your life. I go over it in detail in that post.

My own motivation was simply being aware for a couple decades that higher states of consciousness are possible. I'd used meditation and other psychedelics to moderate success for many years, but it wasn't until I discovered 5-MeO-DMT a few years ago that I finally found a tool that aligns perfectly with the stated goals of the world's meditation traditions. I continue to be shocked that such an amazing chemical catalyst exists.

Second, are there any tips for anchoring that "samadhi" as a reference point, or otherwise making that state more accessible in meditation after the journey(s)? I think it's such a powerful and amazing state that being able to more readily and fully reference or access it would be useful. I can still kind of get there, and sometimes it's more profound than others, but if there are any good rules of thumb for going there more fully post-session I would love to hear them.

Like I just mentioned in the previous paragraphs, the anchoring of that state can happen all by itself as a consequence of repeated exposure to it. It's as if a portal gets opened. I haven't personally reached a point where I can access the full breakthrough from a sober state, but I'm confident that 5-MeO-DMT can lay the tracks for something like that. It's just a matter of feeling your way into it, once the pathway has been illuminated enough to intuit it.

Beyond that, another good pointer is to keep in mind that much of this occurs from the neck down. Your body is a powerful gateway into these hyper-intuitive realizations, and a proper state of being/presence will include a massive kinesthetic awakening, filled with energy and sensations. You'll want to learn to put your attention on feeling more so than thinking.

Feel free to let me know if any other questions come up.

 

[Lopsided Nobody]

Thanks for the reply. Keeping it quick...

Depending how serious you are about utilizing 5-MeO-DMT as a booster for meditation, I'd say multiple trips are pretty much a requirement for significant growth. As you'll read in some of my posts, there's a cumulative effect to the changes it'll make. That state you experienced is itself a kind of tool for purifying the body/mind of an individual, and that applies whether it's reached while sober or via 5-MeO-DMT.

After having gone through the toad journey, I'm more interested in utilizing that experience/state for personal meditation and hypnosis. Using hypnosis/trance as a state for self-reflection and growth, or meditation to reaccess as much of that state or openness as I can, as a "sober" tool has a lot of appeal to me.

Repeated exposure will eventually bring you to a point where a piece of that selfless feeling of unification will bleed backwards into your everyday life, which will be an indicator that the illusory barrier between it and yourself is beginning to wear thin.

Is that a positive or detrimental thing? I think it could be both, but I want to be able to function societally and within my family structure, while also wanting to be able to tap into that selflessness or awareness of us all being interconnected and from the same "stuff."

There are risks to frequent use, though. Essentially, you want to be careful about overdoing it, or there could be temporary periods of extreme discomfort (often called reactivations) that'll be disruptive to your life. I go over it in detail in that post.

Yeah, finding a balance seems important and inline with my personal goals. I'll delve deeper into that post and your reactivations. I have some sense of that from reading about them, and had a few minor reactivations in the days following my journey, but they were not disruptive in my day-to-day life.

I haven't personally reached a point where I can access the full breakthrough from a sober state, but I'm confident that 5-MeO-DMT can lay the tracks for something like that. It's just a matter of feeling your way into it, once the pathway has been illuminated enough to intuit it.


Beyond that, another good pointer is to keep in mind that much of this occurs from the neck down. Your body is a powerful gateway into these hyper-intuitive realizations, and a proper state of being/presence will include a massive kinesthetic awakening, filled with energy and sensations. You'll want to learn to put your attention on feeling more so than thinking.

Those are great points. Being able to access a full-breakthrough or even tapping into that openness would be useful. The latter feels much more possible, and I can sometimes get an approximation of it, although much, much, MUCH less intense than a full breakthrough was of course. And the "neck down" part is a good reminder. That's something I had not really considered.

For now that's a good amount to chew on, so thank you so much for your time and experience. I'll keep reading and am planning another toad journey next year since I have to travel for my journeys. That gives me some time to read, ponder, and set some kind of intention moving forward. But I appreciate your willingness to chat about this.

 

[Here&Now]

After having gone through the toad journey, I'm more interested in utilizing that experience/state for personal meditation and hypnosis. Using hypnosis/trance as a state for self-reflection and growth, or meditation to reaccess as much of that state or openness as I can, as a "sober" tool has a lot of appeal to me.

Is that a positive or detrimental thing? I think it could be both, but I want to be able to function societally and within my family structure, while also wanting to be able to tap into that selflessness or awareness of us all being interconnected and from the same "stuff."

It's a positive, but the transition can be a little destabilizing until you adapt to your current condition. A number of spiritual authors have described the process, including guys like Adyashanti and Eckhart Tolle. When the changes are occurring too fast, your conceptual mind can be quick to become displaced by the felt sense of being, and that can make it difficult to function intellectually. But I was able to find a balance using 5-MeO-DMT once per week, usually in sub-breakthrough amounts at medium/high doses, and occasionally at breakthrough amounts. That cadence prevents it from becoming overwhelming.

Yeah, finding a balance seems important and inline with my personal goals. I'll delve deeper into that post and your reactivations. I have some sense of that from reading about them, and had a few minor reactivations in the days following my journey, but they were not disruptive in my day-to-day life.

For sure, keep an eye out for signs of reactivations, and make sure you let them completely settle before moving forward towards the next experience. Things can really get out of hand if you're not cautious.

Those are great points. Being able to access a full-breakthrough or even tapping into that openness would be useful. The latter feels much more possible, and I can sometimes get an approximation of it, although much, much, MUCH less intense than a full breakthrough was of course. And the "neck down" part is a good reminder. That's something I had not really considered.

Getting in touch with your body is a great technique if it resonates with you. You'll want to continually tip the scales so your attention is away from your mind and towards your being, and that's one way to do it.

For now that's a good amount to chew on, so thank you so much for your time and experience. I'll keep reading and am planning another toad journey next year since I have to travel for my journeys. That gives me some time to read, ponder, and set some kind of intention moving forward. But I appreciate your willingness to chat about this.

Anytime