Pure THH vs. Caapi Extract Experience?

[Nitegazer]

I know this topic has come up before, but not in a while, and since the tek for synthesized THH is widely available (will be attempting it myself soon), there are probably more folks who have experience with pure THH pharma.

I would be interested to read experiences Nexians have had with pure THH and how it compares with caapi extract journeys-- with or without DMT.

Thank you much for the input. I am going to have my first caapi extract/dmt experience this weekend, and I hope to try pure THH/dmt this fall.

 

[FLeP]

Really interested in this myself after hearing a couple mentions of it recently. I had no idea such a tek existed.

 

[Nitegazer]

Here are some threads to get you started...

Harmaline to THH reduction with zinc and vinegar works!

Tetrahydroharmine (will the real Ayahuasca please stand up?)

 

[endlessness]

THH is not a strong enough MAOI so you need a mix of THH and harmine and/or harmaline to orally activate DMT.

 

[Nitegazer]

Ah, thank you Endlessness--- and thank you for your work with THH synth! I don't trust the lab work discussed on most other sites, but I have a great deal of respect and trust in the work published on this site.

Since the harmine is not used from the Rue, I figure can re-blend with that. I'm sure blending ratios are subjective, but has there been any work done on the optimal blends of harmalas? I guess one blend would be better for potentiating DMT and one would be better for harmalas alone (pure THH?).

 

[FLeP]

Here are some threads to get you started...

Harmaline to THH reduction with zinc and vinegar works!

Tetrahydroharmine (will the real Ayahuasca please stand up?)

Thank you kindly

 

[tregar]

From Caymanchem:

THH inhibits monoamine oxidase (MAO)-A and MAO-B with much weaker potency (IC50s = 74 nM and >100 μM, respectively) compared to the companion harmala alkaloids also found in B. caapi: harmaline (Item No. 10995; IC50s = 2.5 nM and 25 μM, respectively) and harmine (Item No. 10010324; IC50s = 2 nM and 20 μM, respectively).2,3

 

[tregar]

Eläinlääketieteellinen tiedekunta | Helsingin yliopisto

Korkeatasoista koulutusta ja tutkimusta eläinten, ihmisten ja ympäristön yhteisen terveyden hyväksi.

www.vetmed.helsinki.fi

Eläinlääketieteellinen tiedekunta | Helsingin yliopisto

Korkeatasoista koulutusta ja tutkimusta eläinten, ihmisten ja ympäristön yhteisen terveyden hyväksi.

www.vetmed.helsinki.fi

In the first link above, on page 2, the average liquid dose size was 100ml, which means
several of the brews in the chart contained around 180mg of harmine and 160 to 180mg of thh,
several had no harmaline at all (all of the brews from the Santo Daime), and could be a result of a
special way they prepared the brew that made it come out with zero amounts of harmaline (for example
long acidic brewing periods).

On page 3, the average ratio of harmine to thh in all the brews was around 1:1 (equal amounts
of both).

myself don't like too much harmaline as even as much as 30mg gives a sleepy feeling and weak
withdrawal symptoms days later consisting of a mild headache and sleep disturbances, as am very sensitive
to harmaline which targets GABA receptors similar to some sedatives, all of which I dislike. However,
most people have no problem with harmaline like I do. Around 10mg of harmaline has little effect on me however.

However, harmine and thh leave no withdrawal symptoms, and make for a very pleasant experience
in combination in amounts similar to what are listed in the charts (ie 180mg of harmine & 180mg of thh)

 

[Nitegazer]

Thanks for your reports Tregar--

My only experience with pharma was 370mg of Caapi extract (similar to the average ayahuasca 100ml dose), though I don't know the ratio of harmine to THH in my extract. I did not experience any type of withdrawal or 'burnt' feeling.

Based on my first experience, working with only harmine and THH is almost too speedy for me. I think I will try a mix of harmalas that include a small amount of harmaline-- thanks to your post, I will keep it low, maybe 10-20mg.

I'm really excited to be able to customize my harmala ratios to find what feels best for me. Will be trying the rue extraction in the next couple of weeks.

 

[tregar]

Page 153 of Callaway study:

Vegetals (brews) from the Santo Daime were surprisingly low in harmaline, which could reflect some special aspect of the decoction process for those samples. Typical doses for these vegetals from the Santo Daime were about 50 to 100ml.

Santo Daime:
THH = 168mg, harmaline = 0mg, harmine = 198mg

Shuar:
THH = 163mg, harmaline = 0mg, harmine = 180mg

For swim any harmaline amounts above 10mg in a brew typically cause wake up in the middle of the night the next night (rebound, or opposite effect of sedative harmaline wearing off) with a mild headache during the day, which is why swim dislikes harmaline, which has mild sedative effects, and can cause rebound withdrawal symptoms in some but not all people.

More on this strange quality of harmaline:

Naranjo 1967:

Harmaline produced more lethargy and withdrawal than harmine but both caused visual changes.

Erowid Online Books : "Ayahuasca: alkaloids, plants, and analogs" by Keeper of the Trout

Ayahuasca: alkaloids, plants & analogs by Keeper of the Trout (full text) title page

www.erowid.org

For those who like harmaline, it can easily be added to caapi brews which are low on it, or have none, by adding that component of rue.

This person's thread on rue extract withdrawal is interesting:

Bad results with p harmala - Welcome discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[Jees]

...This person's thread on rue extract withdrawal is interesting:
Bad results with p harmala - Welcome discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Careful with linking that particular case to rue-extract-withdrawal:

...My bad results may be attributable to bad set and setting (stress, over eating, people irritating me, etc)...