Qigong and DMT

[Pharmacognosis]

Global brings this up in the Nexian. Qigong postures sometimes spontaneously crop up in experiences, and chi flow can be felt very clearly. What I'm curious about and want to discuss is whether anyone here practices Internal Alchemy Qigong or Neigong, and if DMT usage can be used to accelerate chi accumulation in the dantiens. Falun Gong and Healing Tao are popular schols of esoteric internal martial arts, as are Kunlun, Spring Forest Qigong, Longmen Pai, Primordial Qigong and many others.

All these schools use the same essential energy cultivation system, where chi is drawn from breath and the environment to gradually fill the three energy storage centers in the body, the lower, middle, and upper dantien. Theres many similarities to chakra theory but Qigong has a Microcosmic Orbit which is circular, up the spine, over the head, down the throat into the belly, instead of a straight shot to the crown.

DMT seems to access the chakra/prana/chi energies very clearly, all the flow conversations here are tapping into that energy. If DMT provides an external chi source I'm curious if this energy can be stored and thereby accelerate the creation of the immortal energy body that Taoists strive for. I'm not sure if Tai Chi uses the dantiens in its practice, but if there are any practicing Taijiquan teachers or students here I would also like to know how their DMT usage has effected their practice. It would be a big plus if there are any Microcosmic Orbit practitioners in the audience.
I've asked this in Qigong forums but hardly anyone uses psychedelics in that crowd. I don't currently practice because a) I don't have a local teacher and b) i'm concerned about unpredictable effects from smokong pranic rocketfuel while practicing an energy accumulation technique :?: . The results could possibly be extraordinary though. ACRB does come from Chinese Traditional Medicine as does 5meo containing Evodia fruit which was rumored to cause visions and levitation if used in excess by ancient Taoist monks.
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a mind is made of words
words are made of fear

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[Global]

All these schools use the same essential energy cultivation system, where chi is drawn from breath and the environment to gradually fill the three energy storage centers in the body, the lower, middle, and upper dantien. Theres many similarities to chakra theory but Qigong has a Microcosmic Orbit which is circular, up the spine, over the head, down the throat into the belly, instead of a straight shot to the crown.

I can tell you that for myself, the energy is intrinsically connected to breathing. Sometimes if I'm really focused on something, the energy may build up without me really realizing it, and my hands will start pulsing in and out with the breath. What is interesting is that, as you know I have no formal training, however when I sit and meditate, starting with my hands at my belly, they always end up following the same pattern. It takes a little while to build momentum (with DMT active, there is no need for momentum building) through breathing in and out where the hands start by expanding outward at the abdomen, arching around my body upward where my hands meet over my head, they then curve circularly reversing direction and then are brought straight back down. That is remarkably similar to the Microcosmic Orbit you've outlined. This post of yours delights me :shock:

 

[nen888]

5meo containing Evodia fruit which was rumored to cause visions and levitation if used in excess by ancient Taoist monks.

..that's a great rumour!

A. confusa was also used in Chinese exorcisim/banishing spirits..

..while i'm not an expert, i've noted DMT seems to resonate also with Pa-Kua movements..

enjoyed your post Pharmacognosis, thanks

 

[SpartanII]

I'm most aware of Qi on LSD, mushrooms, and MDMA, but I think it can be felt whenever we have the available attention-energy to perceive it.

 

[wide-eyed]

First off, love your username, Pharmako/gnosis.

Second, as soon as I dreamt of inhaling DMT for the first time, I noticed its effects on the breath and the way it pushed me towards yoga/qigong. I have been interested in Qigong for years and practiced on and off, but my recent dreams have really revitalized my interest. I have been planning to reintegrate basic Qigong into my routine, and I will post here or elsewhere if any extraordinary results crop up regarding a connection with DMT. Psychedelics do an amazing job of showing one energy flow, so I have no doubt that using them in connection with working qi will bring fantastic results.

I have been studying TCM (traditional chinese medicine) for years - it is possibly the most advanced medical system to date. I have yet to encounter a condition it cannot CURE (not remedy). Most of these cures ultimately come from adjusting ones emotional state - something that users of psychedelics are very familiar with. Point being - do not take lightly the ability to see energy.

and as SpartanII said - truly it is there all the time, it's just up to us to perceive it. Psychedelics help, but there are many roads to the path we speak of.

Loving you!

 

[Infectedstyle]

For me, I tried vaped DMT last week and felt a pretty well-defined flow of warmth/energy starting from my lower back through the spine across the skull of my head and stopped feeling it when it reached my forehead. It feels like a vacuum cleaner had relieved a physical pressure i've been having in my brain. I feel like it did a good job but the vacuum cleaner forgot to scoop up dust in the corners of my brain. So it released most of the tension that was building.

I made a loud and high frequency humming tone that triggered this experience. I can't do this without DMT because DMT allows me to lock up in a certain tone or overtone and that's where the magic happens.

Is this somehow different from Qi gong? Which circulates across the entire body? Is there a difference in Chakras or Kundalini?

 

[wide-eyed]

Infectedstyle- Qigong is more about movement, sort of like using movement to direct the flow of energy through oneself.

With regards to the aural phenomenon you describe, are you familiar with Terence McKenna's experience that mirrors your own? I was listening to a recording of Terence reading from "True Hallucinations" yesterday, and he describes using DMT in combination with making certain tones to create.. something. I'm not sure if he ever figured out what was going on, but there's a great deal of info about that experience in the book - his brother Dennis also experiences it on mushrooms and caapi. He then tries to do it with lower and lower doses of mushrooms, and says he thinks he will be able to do it without any drugs with just a little more practice.

 

[Global]

I think I've noticed what Terence was talking about. Hyperspace is IME extremely frequency-derived. So if you introduce an audible frequency (sound) that can translate into a visual frequency (light). The entities themselves seem to use audio frequencies in order to maneuver, navigate and do the hyperspacial things we know and love them for doing. If you introduce new audio frequencies into the mix, that can affect how they behave or look as well. I suppose if you could accurately reproduce the pitches they do, you could have them or other things in hyperspace move along predetermined patterns. In terms of singing objects into existence without DMT...I don't know.

 

[woogyboogy]

Reviving this thread, because the topic is of current interest to me...
Maybe some advanced Qigong/Meditation practitioners are currently dwelling on the Nexus and want to chime in

Im currently doing lots of work, with building my lower dantian, via meditation and QiGong.
The lower dantian is supposed to act as a place of storage for energy, which is in traditional daoist practice the first and most important step to strengthen your overall energybody

Yesterday I smoked a sub-breakthrough dose of Changa. It was already quite immersive with the full spectrum of the dancing fractal light show behind closed eyelids. As the show was pulling my head from side to side in astonishment, I slowly started to realize, that I was all up in my head/the crown with my awareness. So I made an effort, to pull my awareness back down my body. When I reached my lower abdomen, where the lower dantian is supposed to reside, it made a strong ripple in my body and the whole experienced just collapsed into there. There where some strong energetic sensations, like a sort of implosion and swelling in the abdominal region, and then it just disappeared along with the visuals and everything else.

Now I really want to understand what this means practice wise. I dont want to get into to much of a daoistic jargon, unless someone else of this school jumps in, but Im really curious what this means in terms of Shen/Qi/Jing conversion, if the dantian is supposed to store such energy and if this was my own energy that I collapsed, or something the DMT borrowed to sustain the experience. And yes, like the unfortunately not anymore here present Pharmacognosis stated in the Op im a bit "concerned about unpredictable effects from smoking pranic rocketfuel while practicing an energy accumulation technique" :?: :roll:

I should add, that I woke up with a small cold today. I know its currently going around, but I still wonder if it is related, as yesterday it felt like the energy field at the top of my body collapsed, and thats exactly where today I feel the symptoms.

 

[AikyO]

Time will tell Woogy, follow your guts ^^. I don't know if focusing for such a precise effect might be a good thing or not, psychedelic state can enhance a great deal and so create instabilities. My sole two experience with Changa ended up with chanting and moving my arms out of a peculiar flow state. It lead me to Qigong and Taichi and awakened my perception of energy eventually, but that process took its time and I made the connection with my entheogenic experiences only later.

My experience with Qi spawned over the month leading to spring. I kept the chanting habit, especially under the shower as it went well with the sound of water. I meditated a lot at that time, lying down in my bed at night I would have extremely lengthy breath and felt like I would push something from my belly down my spine that would go up to the crown and then fall back and resorb itself.

The first time I felt the energy truly, and really got a hold of what it is, or start considering it more, was after some meditation in nature and those waves of energy would start to flow from the bottom of my back and lead my movement. Rotation of the arms, elbows and hips, while paintaining this strong connection to the ground as I sat in lotus. I would just follow what "it" told me to do and where it told me to go. I really felt it had some healing ability and the movement (that sometime stretched a bit even) were to help my back or my neck, those regions.

This energy thing became my guide for sometime and shaped the way I experienced reality. I made up some exercise like walking fixing a point with your eyes then let your hips turn and your head follow. Eventually I started feeling like a child was gripping my belly button and telling me where to walk, so I would just walk for hours going nowhere and everywhere. I really felt like there was life in my belly, like I was the caretaker of this spark of life, that it was my body more primitive form of consciousness. Inherently I felt very androgynous. At that time, it seemed I always would find what I was looking for, and I wasn't looking for anything really so that's what I found. It felt like my mind could be empty and my body would just lead the way, it knew what to do. I felt like a organic robot in a way. It made me think that this was some form of evolved spiritual instinct but it was evident the head did not like letting go for so long, now it has vanished.

I had a peculiar lifestyle following night and day routine and meditating a lot in the cold and under the rain. I find rain can help achieve ego dissolution very easily, very physical one's, as it flows within all and on all. If you stand by the rain, stand still, and let it wash over you, let the wind carry it away, on your naked skin, you really get what being a plant is like - I think - and it really changes the way you feel. (I think people are sad when it rains because they aren't under it, it's like being away from you'r lover when she or he cries and you can't touch her or his tears). I also felt like there was some energetic being doing those same arm movement and that it was what was moving the clouds. My drawings from the winter became prophetic in many ways: the chants, the arms movements, consciousness falling "in" the body from the back of the head and seeing internally, and dragons. I really connected with dragons, and when the blossoming of life came, I could feel the dragon in all things, in water and the plants, the growing leaves moving from a pale red to a strong clear green, the bark of the tress, human skin, the irradiating grass, ... It was the flow of life, that spark in all things, that movement, that serpentin flow, the veins of the universe, fire and water alchemy.

Energy would guide me in how to make each movement perfect. Take this cup of tea? Do it like this. Open this door? Do it like this. Walk? Do it like this. In a way it's where the body feels strong, making the less efforts possible, being relaxed and standing straight. Every move can become art, can become presence. Being aware of my body became central, every move. Of course breathing helps a lot to feel in the whole body, all parts and their interactions.

I started the Taichi and Qigong practice a bit at that time, I learned mostly by myself because I was very sensitive to my environnement and often felt restricted indoors or under artificial light and all of that. I mixed it up with the chanting to, eventually. Vibrational and guttural chants seems to allow the energy to flow naturally, it gives a "color" to the voice. Synchronizing it with movement was a strong experience - it's different than with the breath - each sound resonate in a particular place in your body and outside your body and it seems there are movement that go well with certain sound. At that time I really felt this was a healing practice, that if one was experienced enough he could learn to work with sound and heal himself in some way, that we should teach each other to heal ourselves, internally, with sound that comes from the inside (and breathing obviously), that we had all the tools we needed in our bodies. Yet exploring one's voice is in itself quite an experience, it alters one's mind quite efficiently and I would have loved if it was passed on through generation, from parents to childs.

It seems so evident to me this was such an ancient practice, that before language there was music and before music there was breathing. Meditation makes you focus on that very grounded and grounding primitive language, no lies, no truth, only being. I have always been concerned with the "original/primitive human" kind of thing, this sort of archetype of our awakening. This concern seems of interest to the Daoist as well and with the few bit of reading I did I felt huge connection with what I experienced (the Dragon is pretty big in Chinese culture). I'm also big on the all "birth" symbolism and archetype thing so the inner embryo thing was quite telling too.

Now I don't feel the energy as I used to, I moved on. I really felt that Changa lead me, taught me, the ways of energy. Even though I started feeling it months after my experiences, it was part of the process it induced in me. I have been considering getting back to Changa and smoking very low doses to meditate, sing and so on, though I don't know when that will happen.

(I went on for a while, sorry, I hope it helps in some way, I would love to hear others on their experience with the inner chi, I hope it helps promote those practice at least)

 

[woogyboogy]

Awesome ÅikyǬ. Thanks so much for sharing this story.

I always admire stories like yours, where people go really deep into surrender and connect with nature and themselves on such a deep and in a lifestyle integrated level, but at the same time just follow there flow and dont even need some external spiritual teachings. It really is all there inside of us. Still the ancient texts can teach us a lot, or even just act as a reference for our experiences.

A lot of the experiences you mention sound familiar to me. I even invented a similar practice for myself, where I would focus on a point where I wanted to go and then just let go as much as I can of control and let the body do the rest. But I didnt made it that far, as that the body would take complete control, with choosing the direction and such.

In my practice I find more and more there are really two types of all this practice.
Yin type and Yang type.
What you have been doing sounds like a very Yin type of practice (Surrender). Ive also in the past done mostly Surrender practices, only now Im starting a bit more with Yang types, which is more focus oriented and you yourself guiding the energy.
In my still limited experience, I would say that Yin way of engaging seems to be favorable and more safe with psychedelics.

I really wish there would be a more elaborate discussion on these topics in conjunction with psychedelics. It seems, that it could be really helpful in creating a map on how to engage with these experiences, and how to be more sensitive to some of the more subtle things that are happening during it.
But then again alot of the serious practitioners of this stuff might not seek out forums on the web that much.

If I may ask, what made you "move on" as you said, from the way that you feel the energy?
And do you take any other psychedelics on occasion, then the times with Changa you mentioned?

 

[AikyO]

Thank you. I would love to see it happening to, that map you speak of. For now it seems everyone is doing their thing on their own, only gathering eventually, and maybe it is better that way. Yet, I dreamed a bit about it: people creating specific breathing techniques, postures and so on for psychedelic experiences. I would love if this was more of focus to people. More than, say, trip reports, that are rooted in language and feel more limiting to me. Passing on a techniques seems more complete. Getting to know the mind is getting to know the body and all those mind boggles need some body grounding. It feels like a natural extension of the experience. Qi practice are great because you are in movement, sitting still is not for everyone, but moving slowly is - you have everything: body expressionism, synchronicity with breath, mindfulness, martial aspect and so health, stretching and relaxations, grounding (in movement!) and thinking with the feet and the hips, poetic composition and gracefulness, beauty. It's really an art form, and the canvas is you.

At its core it's ecology, I think. Before considering the balance of the planet maybe we should consider what is near, our own inner ecology. It can feel we are always in the distance, looking at things far away through lenses, curved lines and what not. Feeling the energy made me consider what "durable/renewable energy" means, and really got me into thinking that we became so irresponsible because we are out of touch with the body. We don't know how to use it rightfully, in balance. Doing things the more effortlessly possible is that: saving energy, only using what is needed, no less, no more. When you've experienced that and understood the implications of that, and then read some Lao Zi or Zhuangzi, it seems only natural what they speak of. For the modern mind it seems radical but maybe because we live in radical times ...

Life made me move on, I always change and I knew I couldn't hold onto it. It's both weather (heat brings a very different sensation and the breathing is different), changes in habits and I had a short fleeting love that quite disrupted the balance too. It's far from totally gone though, less omnipresent only. It's hidden in the background. I moved on, and not deliberately so, it just happens - I'm not in total surrender at all and actually it was (always is) a bit difficult when those changes occur, though they seem to occur betterly those days, and I feel more a sense of continuity. I don't feel the need to reach for those state now, I'm happy with how I am right now. I learned things, they made babies and I'm cherishing them now, giving them what they need. I'm learning new things, differently. It sort of feels like I have to feed different me, they all need time to grow and eventually interact with each other.

I also practice Aikido a lot meanwhile so that might be more Yang. In Aikido you are always confronted to someone, in touch with an outer tension (that reveals the inner ones), you can't practice when you want. Taichi and Qigong really complemented that well, it's more personal and take all its meaning when in nature. Aikido has to be learnt from a teacher (teachers!), Qi practice less so (I mean that a teacher is better but not necessary), the teacher is more invisible. I want to say there's always a teacher, it might be perilous to think one can learn on his own, or did so.

Changa is the first psychedelics I have done in three years, and that, I think, allowed me to get a clear picture - in the sense that I had only my inner clockwork going on and not subtle changes and ripples from the other rabbit molder. I only took two times so I could really feel the ripples of Changa only.

Did you have a lot of experience with changa before trying the chi/focusing exercices? Or more experience with meditation before psychedelics? I'm also interested in what you eat, do you follow some vegetarian diet? If you have other exercices I would love to hear them.

 

[woogyboogy]

Did you have a lot of experience with changa before trying the chi/focusing exercices? Or more experience with meditation before psychedelics? I'm also interested in what you eat, do you follow some vegetarian diet? If you have other exercices I would love to hear them.

Yeah any body practice is a great addition to psychedelics imo

Changa I dont have that much experience, on and off for some time, for the last years, but only this winter it has started to become more meaningful to me. I have more experience with other long lasting psychedelics, where I also found that light yoga or Qi Gong exercises can be a lot of fun, and beneficial especially on low doses or after the peak.
I would say I got into meditation around the same time as psychedelics, thats around 7 years ago. My experience with both has gradually evolved, in cycles probably. For the most time I was just tapping around in the dark. Only in the past year or two years all the connections are starting to fall into place, and actually can be integrated on a daily experiential basis. This happened mostly, thanks to understanding better where all this takes place: The body.
That happened, also because my believes have shifted massively. At some point I just decided to throw the to me limited materialist paradigm overboard, and go into more or less full believe of ancient sciences like Daoism and TCM.

I eat mostly plant based, meat very rarely and milk products like twice a week. Also I like to do intermittent fasting (sometimes dry), like 8/16 cycles. And I like Ayurveda eating rules.

Exercises... well for a long time I just liked to do the exercise of giving over all control to my body while lying down or standing and let its do its thing, while staying present and not attaching to sensations or thoughts. State of surrender/Flow. Usually evolved into long shaking sessions, or emotional purging. After a year or so I felt the biggest blocks and tensions had been released, now Im working more on fine tuning it all via concentration on certain spots on the body. The first things I learned meditation wise, back when I was 17 or so, was stuff like Eckhart Tolle, and similar modern esoteric literature. Basically exploring the state of no mind, and experiencing "the one who perceives". It laid a good foundation for what was to come. All that also complimented with observing my believes, and throwing those out that dont serve me, or have been implemented by foreign systems/institutions (parents, society, media,...).

 

[AikyO]

Your evolution seems less anarchic than mine but there seems to be many commonalities. 17 years old was when it all started for me too, I also evolve in circles - very apparent and I don't really have control over them, it has forced me into surrendering sometimes. Also a lot when you say connections started falling into places after some yaers, I really like that aspect of it. It make it feels like nothing is lost and even things that seemed come back in another form and I get a new understanding, a different point of view, and everything completes itself. Detours were worth it.

Good Journey to You