Question(s) about brewing P viridis, and help on repressed memories

[brokenChild]

Hi guys, new to the forum, tho I've read plenty of insightful posts here through general web search. Many thanks for a comprehensive sticky to Ms Minx and contributing members

In any case I just have a few questions that I couldn't seem to locate the information for, and was hoping someone could help. Also maybe some input from experienced users for my actual intention with the brew.

Basically I want to know what the best way to brew the P. Viridis would be? I want to make the admixture separate from the caapi, and understand the 3-boil 9-hour process for the caapi. What about the Chacruna leaves tho? I assume since they are softer plant material, they would require a gentler touch and less heat time to fully extract the active ingredients. I'm getting the leaves somewhat fresh from Hawaii, and using black caapi for the MAOI.

1. How long do I simmer the Viridis?
2. Do I bring it to a boil, then reduce heat, and just simmer under boiling temps for (how long?)? And how many boils (water changes) for this process? 3 like the caapi? or is 2 enough?
3. Given the hawaiian leaves, I have 100g, was thinking 50g would be more than plenty somewhat fresh leaves, green not dried? I know this varies across the board, but I figured start with more than I need and save the un-needed.


~Thank you kindly for any help, input, and/or insight

For Cliffs, please see bold/underlined. Thanks again! :?

 

[olympus mon]

are you working with actually fresh harvested leaf? Not dried out? If so your very lucky to live in a place that has chacruna growing there. Fresh chacruna is far superior and potent than on line dried leaf. But 50g is not very much. Its usually a 1 to 1 vine to chancruna baseline. Brew it the same as the vine.

I prefer at least 100g chacruna and I wouldn't exactly say that's a super string dose. Always brew more than you need and have it on hand for re-doing. You may wish to start with 50g vine and 50g chacruna but have a second and possibly a third portion on stand by.

As far as your intentions goes i feel you are trying to dictate where ayahausca gores fro you. You have a very specific want but you should understand how ayahausca works. Its not exactly the type of medicine you could drink and have it directly address what you want it to. In fact it most likely will not your first time and there are reasons for this.

Ayahausca is not an event. Ayahuasca is a process. A one time experience is rarely enough to fix all the issues that our lives have created in us. We often do not even realize how many parts of our daily lives are affected by even a single childhood happening. It takes time to unravel a lifes worth of pain and emotions not just a single night. If you have suppressed memories there is a reason your mind has suppressed them and I doubt that simply remembering them will fix things. If you had something happen in your child hood you have supprerssed there is bound to be a lot of work and healing in many areas of you. I suggest to people that have specific areas of themselves they need addressing to first become familiar with the medicine and commit to a series of journey's. I would recommend a dozen done in as close succession as possible. No less than once a week.

Ayahuasca will take a reading of where you are and what you need. Where your blockages are and how to help you. What things are you seeing and what things are you un aware of. Its highly doubtful that in a single journey aya will go directly to what you feel is where you need her to go. You may not be ready for that, it may be more important another part of you is healed first before she can even begin to address this focus of yours.
Do not try to dictate what, when, where or how ayahuasca heals you only accept her blessing un conditionally for the most effective cleansing and healing.

Immagine you are entering therapy with a therapist telling them how they should direct the sessions. Its also that your expecting to be cured in a single one hour meeting. Therapy does not work like that and you, the patient, rarely know how to achieve your goals. A person is best to choose wisely what therapist they will work with and trust that person. A good therapist would need back ground about you. need to know your personality, your fears, your strength and weakness's. Whats happened to you as a child, how did it make you feel and how does it affect you now as an adult.

Aya needs all this same background as well in order to help you. This takes time and dedication from you. This is ....a PROCESS, not an EVENT.

While you are becoming familiar with ayahuasca its is best to not try to control anything only surrender, trust, and accept what she has for you. Ayahausca often times will show you something to get you to see another. Its as if you took a dream literally. Dreams often have messages, lessons, and helpful guidance but they must be interpreted. They are never to be taken at face value. Things in your dream represent parts of you, past experiences, people, lots of things and ayahuasca is no different. The visions and experience as a whole must be interpreted and integrated. This takes time I cant emphasize that enough. Get yourself a journal as your going to need one. This is the single best way to integrate the journey to your life and understand what is being shown to you and what you must change or heal about yourself.

I would recommend reading this pdf I wrote on integration I will attach. It talks in much more detail what I am discussing. I think it would help you to do more reading and research regarding working and healing using plant medicines. I wish you good travels. Liberation and a new life is possible and waiting for you. I am very happy you have the courage to do the work.

 

[brokenChild]

Thank you kindly, that hit on many points/levels and the information is thoroughly appreciated.

To clear up some details, which may or may not be helpful for more complete understanding...

1. I am actually using green leaves, picked fresh, from hawaii, but from online... so I am pretty sure they're not 100% just fresh off the vine yesterday, but they're also not the brittle dry stuff, something in between. I have 100g of that coming in the mail, and was under the impression that if you have enough caapi, you don't need much light to get a full reaction (with respect to not overdoing, but also not underdoing either) as well as hawaiian apparently being stronger than standard viridis (I know it's variable)

2. The vine is actually black caapi, and by my understanding would require less since it's more potent in alkaloids... but I guess that sort of varies too, I should have about 450g in my possession when starting the journey, whole vine but no idea on freshness.

3. I have a fairly extensive knowledge of psychoanalysis, did a lot of leisure reading in college which I enjoyed, so it's certainly helped me identify my own problems... so I see the problems, or the expressions of my problems (in quite a lot of detail, and you're right when you say it impacts everything)... But I cannot see the root, and the root lies in those memories. Once I have the memories, I can relive those broken pieces and close the account. Integrate and grow from it.

4. I am also working under the guidance of a master, so for what it's worth I have another steady rebound source for true insight. I was aware that there's certain self-hypnosis techniques that can procure the same memories for me, a way to access the unconscious consciously, but self-hypnosis would take too long and is too boring for my journey, Aya seemed to be a more immediate approach (and more fun) towards the direct issue.


In any case thanks again, I will take a look at the PDF file; thanks for the attachment and the insightful words. If those details above helped clear things up I'm always open to any and all input, every little bit would help

Also for what it's worth I am aware of my mind and a lot of it's ways (working on repair), and have also done extensive trips with LSD and psylocybin in the past, so somewhat used to altered states, but would be a first with aya which I know is different.

 

[olympus mon]

That is wonderful you have done so much self study and work to heal already. Indeed it does sound like a missing piece of the puzzle will help you continue your healing process.

I would advise you to consider working with a specific healer in Peru named Emelio. He holds hi ceremonies outside of Iquitos. I think to unlock this memory in an efficient manner a shaman would be a very good tool to work with along with ayahuasca.

I stayed with him for 2 months and the things i saw him do and help people i still can not explain to this day how they are even possible.

GIve ayahuasca at home a try but if you do not get these memories back maybe consider working with a good healer.

All the best to you. Love and light and healing sight!

 

[brokenChild]

Thank you

I'm too tied up in too many ways where I am to travel to peru, but I figured why do I need a shaman if I have access to a master? Not sure what the difference is on the spiritual plane, but I gotta find a way to make it work. Thank you for the suggestion tho, would love to travel if I could.

I guess one final issue then, the brewing of the viridis separately; All I could find so far, is bring to boil water+tbsp distilled vinegar/Liter with the leaves, then low bubble for 2 hours, filter, repeat another wash, then simmer down to drinkable dose and I got an admixture...

Is this accurate? my main concern is I don't want to overcook the Viridis plant material/DMT salts, but I also don't want to undercook it. I know traditionally it's cooked for 9 hours with the caapi in some recipes, which makes sense that it's fairly resilient... so 4 hours would be fine? or cook it longer?

Brew it the same as the vine.

So just to confirm I'm not risking overcooking it with 3 washes x 3hrs each? at low bubbly heat?

open question, just noticed that detail

thanks for everything olympus mon, you've been a huge help :thumb_up: , and for anyone else that cares to offer insight/opinions/comments always welcome

 

[olympus mon]

You are welcome Im happy to be of service.

Personally I wouldn't cut short the boil of the viridis. Do the same 3 x 3hr boils. Light boils and reduce slowly. I dont bring to a full boil when reducing. Reduce so a 1oz shot = 50g chacruna. Some like to drink their vine 20 min before the chacruna but its not mandatory by any means.
I would drink no less than 60g vine to begin with and at least 75g chacruna. Personally i would drink 100g and 100g but I know how my body reacts.

You can't over cook them as long as they don't reach a raging boil while reducing. keep the boild light.

As far as shamans go they are helpful but not mandatory either. The do aid a great deal in specific things such as recalling a memory or specific healing of parts of ones mind and body. I don't know what your master is a master of.

I personally do not refer to another human being as my master. It doesn't feel right for me as if I am lesser than or they are to be exhaulted. Just me i guess but it doesn't sit well especially self proclaimed ones. If this person is a master of ayahausca how so?

Healers and shamans are human beings like you and I but have learned how to work with the plants to help people directly with hands on and indirectly by helping them interpret the message. The are not the message, the plan spirits do the talking we listen. Healers and shamans simply help us hear and interpret the message. Careful of anyone claiming to be the message. Lots of ego';s out there in this now quite lucrative market.

 

[brokenChild]

I don't know what your master is a master of.

I personally do not refer to another human being as my master. It doesn't feel right for me as if I am lesser than or they are to be exhaulted. Just me i guess but it doesn't sit well especially self proclaimed ones. If this person is a master of ayahausca how so?

I think you misunderstood my statement, he's not MY master, he's A master.... he's a master of himself, a flame onto himself if you will. A master of his own being. Not sure of his specific knowledge on ayahuasca, but he knows himself so to him no part of self is unconscious. He can only point the way tho, but he's a clear mirror and his insight into my own being has been invaluable. In any case I guess a shaman is more versed with the ways of the plants?

I guess that makes sense. A shaman can too be a master and vice-versa, I was just curious what would separate one from the other, if at all.... maybe just specifics. Also no ego, the master has no physical presence... at least this master doesn't. Some of them do, sounds like crazy talk I guess if you've never met one, but can't deny a pure light when you see it (I keep questioning and doubting, but so far it's never failed me). Also he makes no claim, he just helps, no request on his end I just ask when I'm stuck and he gives insight. I can leave when I choose


Anyways that point aside thank you very much for guiding my brew and shedding light on my misconception on the aya experience, it has totally helped in every way possible. You guys are awesome on this site, words are not enough :d

 

[brokenChild]

Alright started the brew Kinda excited, viridis coming in tomorrow

Turns out my B Caapi is actually Alicia anisopetala (aka "black caapi") but after some digging figured out it was slightly different from caapi. In any case, that's all I got right now so will give it a whirl and see what shakes out.

3x3 boil and then will go from there

Also currently on 600mg test E and 600mg EQ. For the guys wondering if aya is safe on anabolics (seen a thread somewhere asking this) Sex hormones do not impact MAOI in any way, so there shouldn't be any negative interactions. I would most definitely drop orals, and maybe cut meats out for a day 2 b on the safe side, also drop stims (stimulants) like clen/t3/amphetamines, preworkout drinks, energy drinks, etc

In some people tren tends to add to aggression/shorter fuse on anger/frustration so for those people those emotions may color the journey, I would probably drop it alltogether or at least bring it to a manageable cruising dose.

Ingredients for this experiment will be somewhere around 250g Alicia Anisopetala, thinking about trying the egg white trick when reducing all 3 boils to clear out some of the tannins... anyone ever try this?

And 100g p. viridis from hawaii 3x3 boil. Vine mixture and admixture will be consumed separately. Will start with half of the vine brew, and half hour to 45 mins later maybe try the other half, or proceed to the admixture, depending how the moment strikes me.

Will keep it updated

 

[olympus mon]

Sorry if im a bit confused but are you planning on drinking 125g of vine then possible drinking more vine later on? I ask because although 125g is my prefered dose of caapi with aya tha is a lot of vine. Especially for a persons first time. Some people are sensitive to caapi and 100g is way too much. IMO its not dangerous but it could make for a very rough ride. I would recommend drinking 60g and see how that feels.

Chacruna can vary greatly for potency. I have drank 50g and felt nothing but the vine in my aya brews. Personally I wouldnt drink less than 40-50g to start out. Thats just me.

I prefer about 125g of both for a strong experience. Hope that helps you decide whats best for you.

To answer your question. I have met some special very at peace people in my days. I guess a person could be refered to as a master. I think my confusion with your statements was you said "I have a master therefore what would I need a shaman". So I took that as literal. Your words were possesive grammerically therefor I assumed you meant your master. I understand now what you meant.

That being said a person could be a "master" of themselves and their surroundings but that really doesn't mean much if they don't have experience with these medicines. Im not being confrontational but because someone is pleasant to be around and aids you in life doesn't mean they could help you in a ceremony necesarily. Its apples and oranges. Maybe you will see what I mean after you have a strong ayahuasca experience.

I wish you safe and rewarding travels new friend.:thumb_up:

 

[olympus mon]

Not that a shaman or anyone is needed for a journey. All you need is willingness to accept what ayahuasca has to show you and the courage to face it. I very much enjoy drinking alone or with a close friend not just in traditional ceremony's and with healers.
Happy travels.

 

[brokenChild]

Thanks, I see what you mean on the master/shaman point.

As for the aya, yeah I figured 250g was probably too much, but I also figured it was more than enough to get me where I need to be. I had actually debated myself down to starting with 1/4th and working up from there after I read some of the "over the top" experiences.

I guess the main problem was this Alicia Spp. strain, I've read all kinds of conflicting info here among the nexus threads... along with mixed reviews of people having visuals, and some claiming that it doesn't have MAOI properties, and others claim at higher doses (250g) reduced it has the potential for admixture interaction... So I'm a bit confused on this one, wish I had checked the threads and just got standard Caapi, but live and learn. I'll work with the mystery I suppose. Will start with 1/4 of reduced, and maybe up the anty to 1/2 of the 250g final dose half hour later if I feel it's not too much... probably start the admixture the same way since, like you said it's very variable... I've seen accounts saying 10g hawaiian p viridis is enough, and others say 25, 50.

Also, any thoughts on dropping the egg white on the vine reduction to clear out some of the goo? or does it matter? Suppose to clean the tannins out and make it cleaner/easier to drink (egg white soaks up the dirt as it cooks), but never tried it and was unsure if it would also clear out some of the actives or not?

Thanks again

 

[brokenChild]

along with mixed reviews of people having visuals, and some claiming that it doesn't have MAOI properties, and others claim at higher doses (250g) reduced it has the potential for admixture interaction...

Also, any thoughts on dropping the egg white on the vine reduction to clear out some of the goo? or does it matter? Suppose to clean the tannins out and make it cleaner/easier to drink (egg white soaks up the dirt as it cooks), but never tried it and was unsure if it would also clear out some of the actives or not?

Thanks again

Have dismantled said confusion on Alicia Spp dosing... the 250g from other thread I referred to was fresh vine as used in the other thread example, so it makes sense to be roughly 100g dried per standard dose, give or take.

Also decided to get rid of the egg, gonna man up and bottoms up on whatever I cook up :want:

whether or not it's active is still up in the air (the Alicia anisopetala in this case), time will tell

 

[olympus mon]

Im sorry I have no expereince or knowledge of that plant. I thought you meant you had black caapi, which if anything is stronger than yellow and other caapi vines.
Maybe as Jaime about dosing with that. He knows a lot about a lot of plants. He is also a good one to ask because his recomendations are always on the low side. So keep that in mind.

As far as egg binding, yes I wrote a tutorial with pics on here so I am familair wih this process, I do not like it. I dont feel its needed and cuts down on the potencey IME. Personally I dont get sick from ayahuasca unless I drink a lot. I purge but dont feel nausea or anything.

Just filter out some sediments throuhg a t shirt a few times when hot. When you drink shake up the bottle and drink sediment and all.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

At 10g and 25g, I did not have MAO inhibition with A. anisopetala.

It's worth noting that this vine does not contain harmala alkaloids, or any compounds contained within the NIST database. There's no telling what's actually in here. Afaik, all successful reports of inhibition have come from a single vendor. There is also no ethnobotanical literature on this plant, afaik.

It feels somewhat similar to harmala alkaloids, it's definitely active (it has effects), but also pretty different, imo.

Start low and work up would be the only suggestion I would give, as no one can truly advise you on this plant, imo.

 

[brokenChild]

Awesome, thanks guys.

I thought you meant you had black caapi, which if anything is stronger than yellow and other caapi vines.

That's the thing, it's advertised as "black caapi" and labeled as such, tho vendor was kind enough to include the Alicia Spp part which I didn't notice or look into till days after purchase. In any case most of the info I was able to find on it suggests that the majority of "black caapi" is actually just this particular kind. I have seen other black caapi strains tho which seem to be just caapi, in any case the reports are all mixed.... Nexus seems to be the only place that distinguishes the two and has any kind of testing done on it (spectra, etc.)

Start low and work up would be the only suggestion I would give, as no one can truly advise you on this plant, imo.

This is probably what I'll end up doing anyway.

Working on reduction right now, caapi almost done, just need to reduce the viridis washes and will be good to go. Will report back post-experimentation most likely tomorrow unless it's a complete dud all the way through. I figured between 250g vine brew and 100g viridis admixture SOMETHING is bound to get fuzzy. In any case thanks for the feedback guys :thumb_up:

 

[brokenChild]

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Found another AWESOME guide... goes into the drinking aspects quite well about halfway down the page, among other things

 

[brokenChild]

So I drank half of this putrid, foul tasting concoction... half of each, half the A.A. (bout 100g, no more than 125) and half the P. viridis. (50g)

bout an hour and a half later, after a good 45 min wave of mild nausea, ate an apple, still nothing.

I thought maybe I had an ayahuasca placebo effect, saw a funny lookin cloud, but that's about it.... wut tha deal? Should I drink the rest? I feel like too much vine brew to down 250g... maybe another 25-50 at most (this actuall doesn't taste terrible)

The p-viridis stuff tho... man oh man, tart and disgusting.

Any thoughts? wait it out? drink moar?

 

[brokenChild]

Back to the drawing board it looks like. Gonna get some actual, real Caapi and try this again.

Took somewhere around 125-150g Alicia, tossed the rest out in case it worked, didn't want to have taken too much... and drank 50g p viridis. Decided not to force myself on the remaining 50g, no use in purging for no reason (assuming I can keep down what I got) In any case nil effect. Not a trace, no mood difference, headspace the same...

May try with chaliponga next go round


Question for the passerby.... which one is consistently more potent, Yellow Caapi or White Caapi? Not messing with red or black since they have those weird dysfunctional strains (Banisteriopsis muricata and Alicia anisopetala)

 

[olympus mon]

I would recommend yellow vine or red from Mckennas farm in Hawaii from personal exp. You can never go wrong with yellow cappi. Mckennas red caapi is a great powerful vine. Multiple vendors sell it.

You could try chaliponga but there is something to be said for not jumping around too much and sticking to one plant at a time. The more times you brew and dose a plant, even unsuccessful attempts you still build experience and a relationship with that plant. I prefer chacrunas dmt and actives over chaliponga although I will say I don't have a lot of experience with chalipomga. Much ,ore with charcruna. Iyts a cleaner dmt/alkaloid profile.

On a lighter note, your comment on taste just reminded me of a story. If you think your dried chacruna tasted bad you should drink aya with a lot of fresh chacruna. Imagine all the bitter foulness of ayahausca then add a smoky bacony/ham taste to it. A year or so ago in Peru we brewed a huge pot of ayahauisca for the group with 5 kilos fresh vine and 8 kilos of fresh chacruna. It was reduced to somwhere around 100g vne and 180g chacruna per serving. It was not only the most powerful ayahuasca I have drank but the taste was unlike anything I have ever had before! LOL!!!! Yuck!

Utterly vile tasting!

 

[brokenChild]

I would recommend yellow vine or red from Mckennas farm in Hawaii from personal exp. You can never go wrong with yellow cappi. Mckennas red caapi is a great powerful vine. Multiple vendors sell it.

Thanks, I'll check it out within the week and see if I can track it down

You could try chaliponga but there is something to be said for not jumping around too much and sticking to one plant at a time. The more times you brew and dose a plant, even unsuccessful attempts you still build experience and a relationship with that plant. I prefer chacrunas dmt and actives over chaliponga although I will say I don't have a lot of experience with chalipomga. Much ,ore with charcruna. Iyts a cleaner dmt/alkaloid profile.

That's actually the main reason I started with the chacruna in the first place is because it was claimed to be more pure, cleaner experience. The trouble tho is finding the chacruna that has the relative potentcy necessary for liftoff... I'm not sure the stuff I got was good or not, but it did end up coming in a vaccuum sealed bag, unlike what the pictures showed it was green and brown brittle and flaky (pictures showed green leaves that have been picked, but are drying.... this stuff was past dried lol)

In any case I dunno I may get both and if I have the funds, and if one doesn't work use the other

On a lighter note, your comment on taste just reminded me of a story. If you think your dried chacruna tasted bad you should drink aya with a lot of fresh chacruna. Imagine all the bitter foulness of ayahausca then add a smoky bacony/ham taste to it. A year or so ago in Peru we brewed a huge pot of ayahauisca for the group with 5 kilos fresh vine and 8 kilos of fresh chacruna. It was reduced to somwhere around 100g vne and 180g chacruna per serving. It was not only the most powerful ayahuasca I have drank but the taste was unlike anything I have ever had before! LOL!!!! Yuck!

Utterly vile tasting!

I eat meat at the moment, so I actually like ham and bacon, and smoked meats in general :d

I can imagine tho the fresh chacruna would taste even more terrible... I can see now why you guys reduce it down to a shot glass, or something miniscule, or even do extractions... it's not something I would want to put in my mouth on a regular basis. Again, thanks for the help, I'll get back on here once I acquire some actual vine and can do this thing properly