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Queztocoatl

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djastray2000

Rising Star
Hi Friends
A story of a DMT dreamstate

The man smokes DMT three times lightly, had a jolly strange effect.
Time four...small glass pipe...3 tokes....large tokes....
First comes a geomteric tesselation that is NOT fractal in nature.
These figures forming the the radiantly "colored" tesselation run along lines
of existance...like strings in only 2 dimensions...no depth...
Here comes the buzzing...high pitched humming...

The geometric form brings me into a room...it is definately the geometry
doing the work of bringing in the room. The room is infinitely large but still a room
I am bump in the matrixian nature of the box...there are other bumps...This place is
fucking strange...From tehe wall of the matrix evolves a serpent...with wings I think.
He tells me lies and truths and shows me the guanlet of human emotions including losing
free will and being forced into spiritual servitude...
after giving me emotions of ectstacy and pure love...I was shown what id like to given everything
physical and that used to remove the spiritual. Crazy. I'm glad I'm not a materialist
and I hope to never have those feelings again...then as I'm being shown the negative nature
of monetary and material pursuits out of the matrix a hole is broken. From the hole come this architypal
jesus figure...laughing at the whole experience saying you are above emotion here...he is not made of the matrix but is another realm...my younger who brother passed away three years ago...is whith him...connected to it
it has a machine voice...very whirry...I relate to the thorn-crown...whacko...The machine voices scare makes me...
The whole fills in and the jesus/my brother entities pass back... The serpent fades back into the geometry of the matrix...but not before giving me a mischivous stare...the geometry guides me back to earth.
 
Queztacoatl is the mayan creator god, a winged serpent. After my nightmare, I was scared of the "Age of Aquarius", thinking perhaps after the sky finished shifting to our view, humans would be exposed to some sort of........radio signal, radiation, whatever, just something that would scramble our thoughts and incapacitate us, leaving us to die. Now SWIM realizes that's pretty irational, but it seemed very plausible at the time. 2012 and CERN have people all worked up :)
 
My foaf saw Quetzalcoatl last night! More description here, in my fourth post:


So he is a Mayan god too? Because my foaf saw him in Mayan form and style (see the post), even though he's only ever seen him archaelogically speaking in a very different form, from the archaeology of plains civilisations in Mexico.

djastray2000, the fact that you saw Jesus there too makes me think that maybe the serpent you saw could have Abrahimic leanings, i.e. Satan (who one would imagine to lie to you as you said), and who is not necessarily Quetzalcoatl?
 
I just found this thread again to say if you read about Quetzalcoatl on Wikipedia, you'll see that some Mormons believe him to be Jesus when he came to America for his second coming. Anything about him that doesn't fit the comparison is then said to just be a corruption of his message by others. I don't believe in that stuff but thought it might be of interest to the original poster. I do at least prefer this strategy than dismissing him as 'the devil' as the Catholic conquistadors did.

I also read there that quetzalcoatl is a very old god featuring in most of the religions of the meso-american civilisations. Most practices dictated that he OPPOSED human sacrifice. He represented the earth. Also, the Aztecs believed that he was the god of wisdom, learning and books. All this makes me like him.

SWIM is fascinated by him because he has seen reptilian people fashioned in a meso-American style (or sometimes almost Egyptian in the way they stand) on many different sacraments. The first time, the only time he ever did a proper dose of LSD, his first entheogenic experience where they danced on the carpet, before he knew anything about meso-America. The second time, after smoking salvia extract, where they were peeking out from the seams in the illusion of reality. The third time, on DMT, they were happily swimming the backstroke in his wooden floor. The fourth time, on DMT, as I described earlier, two quetzalcoatls. The fifth time, on DMT, they were very small about the size of a finger each, where again they were holding up reality, or at least holding SWIM's friend as if venerating him. SWIM has never had any repeat vision other than of these creatures, and he really likes seeing his 'little teachers'.
 
ohayoco said:
I also read there that quetzalcoatl is a very old god featuring in most of the religions of the meso-american civilisations. Most practices dictated that he OPPOSED human sacrifice. He represented the earth. Also, the Aztecs believed that he was the god of wisdom, learning and books. All this makes me like him.
Click to expand...


Quetzalcoatl is a very old god of the Mayans, he is their creator god, also of knowledge and wisdom. He looks like a european, tall, white with a long beard (Meso americans have difficulty growing beards, if they can at all) He left the Mayans sometime in the past, and sailed away on the seas, but prophizied that he would return one day. The Mayan calendar indicated that he would return on a particular day in a particular year. Unfortunately for the Aztecs, the extact day and year prophisized for his return was the extact day and year that Cortez and his conquistadors landed in Mexico.

Very interesting play of history...
 
Saidin said:
Quetzalcoatl is a very old god of the Mayans, he is their creator god, also of knowledge and wisdom. He looks like a european, tall, white with a long beard (Meso americans have difficulty growing beards, if they can at all) He left the Mayans sometime in the past, and sailed away on the seas, but prophizied that he would return one day. The Mayan calendar indicated that he would return on a particular day in a particular year. Unfortunately for the Aztecs, the extact day and year prophisized for his return was the extact day and year that Cortez and his conquistadors landed in Mexico.

Very interesting play of history...
Click to expand...

There are no pre-conquest accounts of such things whatsoever. He was a feathered serpent not a bearded white guy. The first appearance of such a tall-tale about how they thought Cortez was 50 years after the conquest. Cortez liked to boast about how he conquered the natives due to their naivity, and the Spanish most probably made all that up to legitimise their rule. That's just typical white man legitimising his racism.
 
Interesting. I took a college level course on pre-columbian civilizatons last year, where I learned what I did about the Mayans. That course substantiated what I posted. I don't remember them saying that all this was written 50 years after the fact, but I guess the professor could have taken whatever material was out there and presented it in that way.

Could you provide any sources I could go to to validate/invalidate what I have learned. Would be most appreciative.
 
I believe as well, all information about the Mayans came from the Dresden Codex, which wasn't deciphered until...50 years ago? 100? I can't remember exactly but not that long ago. I suppose this codex could have been written by the spanish after the fact, but unlikely. I believe it was sequesteed away by a monk who felt bad at the destruction of all the Mayan material.

Could be a good story to give it the validity they needed, but it doesn't seem correct to me.
 
Ha I just read it off Wikipedia just now so my source isn't necessarily credible (don't laugh, this isn't my area so I don't have time to buy proper books on it all!)... search 'quetzalcoatl' and it has a bit on how it's a myth. But check it out, there should be references there numbered and linked at the bottom of the page. Wikipedia mentions the Dresden codex, so whoever wrote that page overlooked a chunk of it if there's references to prophesies of bearded white men arriving.

I agree that at first glance one would consider universities to be more credible. But keep an open mind because history academics aren't necessarily particularly credible either, the current history is always being revised, and often they just stick to what they were taught long ago. The victor wrote the stories, and the victors were the conquistadors, and I expect your university is full of Westerners who have less desire to destroy a myth that to an extent legitimises the invasion of the Americas. You probably already know that a lot of the stuff our culture teaches us about how great we are is wrong (attitudes to entheogens, the environment, sharing etc)! ;) I recommend reading an introduction to Foucault if you are interested in history (such as 'Introducing...Foucault', Icon Books (Totem in the USA))- he was the first philosopher to expose history as layers of myth written by the elite to justify their own power. It even goes on today, although I expect it's getting trickier... all you have to do is buy a newspaper to see the spin-doctoring in action.

I think the Wiki page says that the Mayans adopted Quetzalcoatl from previous civilisations (and didn't the call him something else, Kukulcan I think?) It says that the earliest guys to worship him were the Olmecs, thousands of years BC.

It's also meant to be bullshit about how bloodthirsty they were. I hear that the Mayans rarely sacrificed anyone, other than captured rival kings etc. Certainly the sacrificed less people than the Christians did (I consider burning someone at the stake in the name of you god to be sacrificing, and it is, isn't it? You're a witch, or a heretic, so you must be put to death to appease god). In fact, I believe that European Christian fanaticism makes the Aztecs look like teddy bears.
 
ohayoco said:
I agree that at first glance one would consider universities to be more credible. But keep an open mind because history academics aren't necessarily particularly credible either, the current history is always being revised, and often they just stick to what they were taught long ago. The victor wrote the stories, and the victors were the conquistadors, and I expect your university is full of Westerners who have less desire to destroy a myth that to an extent legitimises the invasion of the Americas. You probably already know that a lot of the stuff our culture teaches us about how great we are is wrong (attitudes to entheogens, the environment, sharing etc)! ;) I recommend reading an introduction to Foucault if you are interested in history (such as 'Introducing...Foucault', Icon Books (Totem in the USA))- he was the first philosopher to expose history as layers of myth written by the elite to justify their own power. It even goes on today, although I expect it's getting trickier... all you have to do is buy a newspaper to see the spin-doctoring in action.

I think the Wiki page says that the Mayans adopted Quetzalcoatl from previous civilisations (and didn't the call him something else, Kukulcan I think?) It says that the earliest guys to worship him were the Olmecs, thousands of years BC.

It's also meant to be bullshit about how bloodthirsty they were. I hear that the Mayans rarely sacrificed anyone, other than captured rival kings etc. Certainly the sacrificed less people than the Christians did (I consider burning someone at the stake in the name of you god to be sacrificing, and it is, isn't it? You're a witch, or a heretic, so you must be put to death to appease god). In fact, I believe that European Christian fanaticism makes the Aztecs look like teddy bears.
Click to expand...

All of this is good information. I agree with you that Academics don't necessarily provide all/and or correct information. They have thier pre-concieved notions and often exclude completely plausible evidence in order to maintain thier theories. The Egyptians are a great example, they refuse to consider the overwhelming evidence that the Pyramids/Spyhinx were not built by their ancestors, but rahter someone long before their civilization developed.

I believe you are correct, Quetzacoatl originated with the Olmec, from which the Mayans and nearly all other Meso-American civilizations developed. He was refered to as Kulkucan by the Mayans, but they are the same entity. I believe it is the descriptions of Kulkucan where he is portrayed as a bearded white man. It is also true that the Mayans were not that bloodthirsty, it is with the Aztecs where human sacrifice had its greatest expression.

While much information came from the Dresden Codex, it essentially provided the key to Mayan Icongraphy, and further information has been gleaned from the Stelle and carvings/writing on temples and building. In addition, I believe a few other sources have been found in past decades which provided a bit more information on their culture.

I also agree with you in that the Christians of the Inquisition/Crusades sacrificed far more in the name of "god" than the Mayans/Aztecs ever did.
 
This is an interesting subject. Could you provide a link to a Mayan picture of Kukulcan depcted as a 'bearded white man'? I've never seen one myself.

The older civilisations portrayed him merely as a serpent, but the Mayans and Aztecs also gave him human forms. The Aztecs actually had different names for the 'pure' and humanoid forms of their gods. Personally I believe this to be a strategy for enhancing the power of the priesthood because they would then closer resemble the god when in costume. These are the only ones I have found of him portrayed in human form:

Aztec, BROWN SKIN, NOT REALLY 'BEARDED', JUST WEARING A RED CHINGUARD WITH TEETH TO RESEMBLE JAWS (WITH BITS HANGING OFF IT IN THE LAST DEPICTION), from the Codex Telleriano-Remensis, Codex Borbonicus, Codex Magliabechiano and Codex Borgia respectively:

Mayan, NO BEARD, at Mixco Viejo, repro of lintel 15 at Yaxchilan, and finally Dresden Codex 49 itself:

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If you look at the Codex, you'll see that often people/gods are depicted 'white' just through a lack of colouring in... skin is the least important bit to colour when everyone had the same skin colour at the time so it is not a priority. Other less important drawings are left completely uncoloured, while some are coloured fully, skin included. If you look here, you can either decide that a lot of their gods were 'white', or that skin tone was not a priority. The only picture I gound of him from the Dresden Codex shows him beardless and his skin not coloured in along with half of his costume. From these images there's no way one can conclude that he was a bearded white guy, the evidence is too tenuous, and unless I see evidence to the contrary I believe this to be a myth.

And after all, it was the Aztecs not the Mayans who apparently believed Cortez to be Quetzalcoatl, yet they depict him as being native in skin tone, with not a beard but rather a red jawbone and jaws with teeth.
 
Good sources and evidence.

As I think back, I honestly am having trouble figuring out where the bearded white man idea came into my thinking or knowledge. I looked back though the textbooks I have, and he was not described this way in them. Maybe it was the professor? Maybe it was some history channel program on Meso-America. Maybe some random book I read.

The point being, I'll need to do some digging, and am honestly curious where I got this impression from. I know the idea is out there, but cannot recall where from.

I know Kulkucan was to return on the date that Cortez landed. But I wonder where the bearded white guy came from...I will have to do some research.
 
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