QUICK Q21Q21 Tek question

[jah Meej]

I did my first "pull" after about 6 hours... It's been in the freezer for about 14...
I used about 35g of Acacia Confusa RB instead of MHRB.

So I have this lump of A. Confusa I poured in vinegar and stirred a long time, then added lime and waited. Then did a pull with Naptha, and my question is: As my Root bark powder dries out, should I hydrate with water? Would Vinegar be better? Then should I add more lime? Would more vinegar help even if it's not dried out?

So I guess it was a couple questions (But they were more like follow up questions )

I did some checking and couldn't find specific enough info to answer my questions.

A point in the right direction or someone who knows from experience would be outstanding!
Thanks!

 

[Vodsel]

Hey jah Meej,

my question is: As my Root bark powder dries out, should I hydrate with water? Would Vinegar be better? Then should I add more lime? Would more vinegar help even if it's not dried out?

in order to bring the mix back to the right consistency for pulling, add very little bits of water and stir until you get the mix where it's supposed to be. A mister works fine.

Adding vinegar would be a mistake since now the mix is basic, and vinegar would lower the pH. Something you don't want to do now.

Reversely, if/when the mix is too watery, you can add a little lime or simply let it dry for a while.

 

[Global]

Yes what Vodsel said. You'll want to add just tiny splashes of sub-boiling water water to it when it gets too dry. You don't want it to be all liquidy and soupy either cause that defeats the purpose and ease of the "dry tek" when it comes to separating the naptha later on. If it becomes too wet and soupy, just add more calcium hydroxide.

 

[jah Meej]

Ok thanks a lot Vodsel and Global, that makes total sense.

But then so on subsequent pulls, I don't re-acidify then/and/or re-basify? it will just continue to work as it sits? I guess I'm not sure that I understand why you get certain yields before doing pulls after certain amounts of time...

Also on the Q21Q21 tek (im using tek2) as for pulls, it just says "pour off the naptha, you don't need 100% but get at elast 90%" How do I pour it off when you half to tip the bowl past halfway to get that much liquid out, then clumps come falling out, just throw a coffee filter on?

Can I lose product this way? I tend to over think things but I'm about to do a pull on a substantially larger amount and I just want it all to go correct. I also found Q21Q21's estimate of 100ml per 100g bark WAY off, I used like 80ml for 30g bark (maybe my substrate was too dry, but it was crumbly and yet sticky) So if anyone has comments/suggestions on any of this please feel free to add your 2 cents!

Thanks again guys! Fingers crossed :thumb_up:


EDIT: Just tried a pull on 100g, the reason it's taking so much solvent is my consistency is too dry I've surmised. So I added extra, so I had some to pour off (I realize a lot got left behind) so now I'm gonna let the excess naptha evap off the RB, then get to the proper consistency with 190-200º F water, and then I will try another pull. I added my first 35g try with the 100g, I don't see how this would be a bad thing. I still need to understand what "letting it sit" at this point in between pulls EXACTLY does. Thanks again guys.
Peace

 

[Global]

But then so on subsequent pulls, I don't re-acidify then/and/or re-basify? it will just continue to work as it sits? I guess I'm not sure that I understand why you get certain yields before doing pulls after certain amounts of time...

Yep, no need to re-acidify or re-basify. You'll just be adding more naptha (new or old) to the bark you've already prepared.

Also on the Q21Q21 tek (im using tek2) as for pulls, it just says "pour off the naptha, you don't need 100% but get at elast 90%" How do I pour it off when you half to tip the bowl past halfway to get that much liquid out, then clumps come falling out, just throw a coffee filter on?

Yep. What I do is I pour the naptha into a bowl, and as I'm pouring it, I'm pouring it through a permanent coffee filter so it catches all the chunks and leaves the naptha in the bowl. I will then place the naptha in the air-tight container to be put in the freezer. Sometimes you may feel that some of the finer particles have gotten through the coffee filter. If this is the case, before putting the naptha in the container you plan to freeze it in, simple rinse out the coffee filter, dry it off, and simply filter it through one more time.

Can I lose product this way? I tend to over think things but I'm about to do a pull on a substantially larger amount and I just want it all to go correct. I also found Q21Q21's estimate of 100ml per 100g bark WAY off, I used like 80ml for 30g bark (maybe my substrate was too dry, but it was crumbly and yet sticky) So if anyone has comments/suggestions on any of this please feel free to add your 2 cents!

You will not lose product in the coffee filter if that's what you mean. I found 100ml/100g to be substantial, but then again, I work with (and the tek calls for) mimosa, and you're using acacia.

I still need to understand what "letting it sit" at this point in between pulls EXACTLY does. Thanks again guys.
Peace

Letting it sit while you're in the middle of the process serves to further basify it and break down the cell walls to release the DMT. I'm not sure if this is what you mean though. You don't have to let the material sit in between pulls. In other words once you pull the naptha out of there, if you were so inclined you could immediately add more to do another pull and end up pouring that off and have another container in the freezer.

 

[jah Meej]

Outstanding Global! (everytime you said "I don't know if this is what you mean but", yeah that's what I meant! Thanks for the great answers)

So, I leave my naptha uncovered in the freezer, because ideally, I figure the less naptha I have to pour off the better, and naptha is in no short supply, nor is it expensive. Does using an air tight container (im using half pint mason jar, so I could easily seal it) have any advantage? (Other than saving solvent)

Yes I meant in the coffee filter.

OK as for "letting it sit" yes that's what I meant, so it breaks down further the cell walls to allow more dmt release.. Makes sense... Then you also go on to say

You don't have to let the material sit in between pulls. In other words once you pull the naptha out of there, if you were so inclined you could immediately add more to do another pull and end up pouring that off and have another container in the freezer.

From what I was reading on the Q21Q21 tek 2 it says"

The first pull if done immediately after getting the lime-bark to one of the consistencies shouldould yield anywhere from 10%-35% (in my experience.) If the first pull is done after 6-8 hours however it will likely yield 25%-60%.2 pulls done around 24 hours and 48 hours (or later) should be enough to get 80%-90% of the DMT (In my experience).Pulls after that tend to be rather small but I highly recommend doing pulls at 1 week and another at 2 or 3 weeks to get all the DMT possible.

Are you just saying you CAN do pulls immediately? But Q21Q21 is saying that your pulls will be bigger if you give the lime more time?? (up to several weeks it sounds like)

Ok I feel like this is starting to make sense and I'm starting to understand this better. I'm a very chemistry and science-minded person so just following instructions blindly without knowing why is like walking through a dark room full of furniture to me lol.
Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to any of my posts thus far! :thumb_up:

 

[Global]

So, I leave my naptha uncovered in the freezer, because ideally, I figure the less naptha I have to pour off the better, and naptha is in no short supply, nor is it expensive. Does using an air tight container (im using half pint mason jar, so I could easily seal it) have any advantage? (Other than saving solvent)

Well the reason why I advocate an airtight container is only because I'm used to having a freezer (connected to a fridge) with food in both. If it's left uncovered, you will find that a lot of your food (particularly grains and wheats) will start to taste like naptha. If you're using a freezer with no food in it, and especially one that is not connected to a fridge (as even food in the fridge can start to get contaminated) then you'll want to use an airtight container. Mason jars are nice, but can be a bit of a pain in the neck to scrape the DMT out of, so I've found some airtight glass tupperware that makes for easy access in terms of scraping.

OK as for "letting it sit" yes that's what I meant, so it breaks down further the cell walls to allow more dmt release.. Makes sense... Then you also go on to say

You don't have to let the material sit in between pulls. In other words once you pull the naptha out of there, if you were so inclined you could immediately add more to do another pull and end up pouring that off and have another container in the freezer.

From what I was reading on the Q21Q21 tek 2 it says"

The first pull if done immediately after getting the lime-bark to one of the consistencies shouldould yield anywhere from 10%-35% (in my experience.) If the first pull is done after 6-8 hours however it will likely yield 25%-60%.2 pulls done around 24 hours and 48 hours (or later) should be enough to get 80%-90% of the DMT (In my experience).Pulls after that tend to be rather small but I highly recommend doing pulls at 1 week and another at 2 or 3 weeks to get all the DMT possible.

Are you just saying you CAN do pulls immediately? But Q21Q21 is saying that your pulls will be bigger if you give the lime more time?? (up to several weeks it sounds like)

Yes, I was saying that you can do pulls immediately because I thought that was the question you were posing. That is however not what I do. I tend to do the pulls a week or two apart. I'm never in any kind of a rush really.

 

[jah Meej]

Ok thanks again Global, I think that's all I needed to know (for now lol).

Looks like my pull off the 100g is the same size as my first pull off 35g.. I would gues this is from the bark absorbing much of my solvent (due to it being too dry) that I can't recover. Next pull (I combined the 35g and 100g) I will hydrate it with water until the consistency of about thick oatmeal. Plus a few days time sitting....

Oh jk 1 more question lol. If you let it sit for weeks, do you have to keep it hydrated? or is it ok to dry out?

 

[Global]

I let mine dry out, and everything works out fine. The second pull is usually the biggest for me. On the next pull, instead of adding more water which I wouldn't recommend, I would instead simply add more naptha. Just add a sufficient amount so that it doesn't all get eaten up by your bark. In the end you may be forced to evap some off if you end up pouring off too much, but that's how I would go about it, and if you do it right, there won't be any evap needed.

 

[jah Meej]

Well actually, in between pulls, after hydrating it to a lighter consistency, I keep a bowl on top with very very little space and it smells like naptha when I waited 3 days in between pulls.

I just did my 2nd official pull from my 100g (well 135g but ive already pulled an extra time off the 35g of it) and I just added to everything, to aid in getting out of a mason jar (I have glass Tupperware in mind as soon as you said that, great idea). So i'll have to do that as well. this was all with relatively small amounts and if I'm NOT getting dmt out, I just have to keep doing more pulls? because it should yield at least 2% for A. Confusa. (maybe more I forget.) but is it possible since I added to much water or at the wrong time or something that I interfered with the cellular breakdown you were talking about? I guess I just don't wanna be wasting time and naptha on stuff that's basically "spent" I'd rather get more, its relatively cheap stuff (ACRB). Thanks again for you help. BTW there's DEFINITELY stuff in there, I just have yet to scrape it out so my first scrape will be the result of several pulls.

OH! almost forgot, there is this acetate layer on the bottom of my jar, is safe/smokeable or harmful/undesirable? if anyone knows. I heard it could be "jungle dmt" or basically jimjam (which i'm a little hazy on the difference of those two, but I think are very similar if not the same).

Thanks again Global

 

[Global]

No need to "waste" naptha. You can always recycle it, if you don't get the alkaloids you were looking for. Just make sure to collect it in a dish, or pour it back into the plant material.

 

[jah Meej]

Yeah... I actually have been way under estimating 100ml of naptha, cuz it comes out so slow but steady stream.

I will attach a picture....
As I've been getting my material sufficiently warmer and warmer I'm getting bigger pulls. My first one was prolly only like .2 but please tell me if I just got shit load in my coffee filter or if I just f'd something up (I'm a little nervous! :?

What do you think?
(It's still wet with naptha, but I'll see if it's any fluffier and crystal like when it dries, I just wanted to get that naptha outta there before it warmed up and started re-dissolving all my hard work)

I realize the dark "debris" is small chunks of RB. also theres some discolored material you get when scraping the bottom of a glass dish you evapped out of, I've heard its either essential "jimjam" or "jungle dmt", or, that its basically just dmt oxide.

Nothing like the smell of Naptha in the morning..

 

[jah Meej]

Wait, Ronsonol is an approved naptha solvent right?? It said for Canada but why not US too?

I did blank cd test n got no discoloration or odor... Or ANY trace...

But now my stuff is looking more and more yellowing... Can it be degrading to DMT oxide that fast? Will heat greatly accelerate this process? ( IKNOW it will of aging, but of DISCOLORATION from dmt oxide which is yellow.)
I need to find out if its my solvent or storage methods.

Thanks again for anyone who decides to chime in on this one...

 

[Global]

I use Ronsonol in the US, and everything comes out just fine. Your pulls will start getting yellower typically if you reuse the naptha. You can use fresh naptha, or make sure you're rinsing the container you freeze. You can also re-x if you want to try and remove whatever impurities. The yellow could be oxides, or it could be fatty plant oils that the old naptha picks up. You can also just smoke the yellow stuff and see how it goes. Sometimes my DMT is white. Sometimes it's crystal clear. Sometimes it's got some tan-yellow in there or even brown-red sometimes, but it all smokes like DMT

 

[jah Meej]

Yeah thanks global, all my pulls from that batch were A+.
(and I apologize, I was very vague when I said "my stuff is yellowing" lol. I meant the solvent, not the actual dmt, which I've heard is normal and fine. My fingers and brain don't always collaborate so well )

I have recently done a 250g, but I got the acacia confusa from a different source... It was lighter in color and "fluffier" I don't know how else to explain it...

So everything went fine until it came time to do pulls.... a 12 oz bottle of naphtha is 355ml, so I should use roughly 2/3 or more.... I guess I had only used about half, cuz I went to pour off and got like 10 drops of naphtha and 3 drops of water.... So I returned to hot bath, and added a shit load more (its deceiving how little liquid is coming out of that tiny ronsonol spout). I squeezed until the bottle felt like 1/3 or 1/4 full. Then there was plenty to pour off... However 2 things:

I used the soupier consistency this time to avoid solvent loss
also, I got water every time I poured off. Did I maybe have too much water?

355ml of naptha is like 4 dollars, so if it will result in easier pulls, Ill just use like 300ml, and use a drier, more crumbly consistency before I do my pulls...

I know its hard to convey water content but when I went to do pulls (it had been sitting overnight since the lime was added) there was a slight pool of water on top.
But when I stirred it up it mixed well again, and even needed a tad more water (and was still way thicker than "thick pea soup" as the tek describes)

I'm wondering if I just plain used to much water, or if this fluffier, slightly more fibrous material (the first 100g I got was just pure power, no fluffiness).

Any thoughts welcome. And Global, thanks for your continuing comments, they help so much. :d

It appeared there was still quite a bit of solvent, so I tightly covered the container and put it away for now, at least I know the dmt isn't going anywhere lol. Thanks again everyone.

 

[jah Meej]

Revisiting my post for reference, anyone still around?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Revisiting my post for reference, anyone still around?

Yes we are

I used the soupier consistency this time to avoid solvent loss
also, I got water every time I poured off. Did I maybe have too much water?

That is probably too much water but it's not so difficult to separate the two phases. Glass Pasteur pipettes are really useful if you can get hold of some.

The consistency of the paste can be brought more to the range of 'cookie dough' by stirring in more lime. That should effectively prevent water carry-over.

Regarding your question in the other thread, rehydrating your paste with hot water seems like a good idea. You can then keep it warm over a pan of freshly-boiled water while you do the pulls. The DMT may have polymerised/oligomerised over the course of time, especially under the basic conditions in the lime paste, so higher temperatures will assist in pulling a greater proportion of whatever remains in there. Don't be surprised if your product is quite dark and oily - and nor should you worry, as it can very likely be cleaned up considerably with a mini A/B.

Best of luck!

 

[jah Meej]

So I put this Extraction off for a very long time period and again, could hardly recover any solvent the 1st pull. Is this normal?
I see maybe just a couple tiny tiny crystals in all of that nap from 250 g and What came out was mostly water and it wasn't very supy this time.
Is the 1st pull always weird because I noticed the bark looks different after the 1st one? If anyone has any tips on actually getting the solvent out that would be so helpful as that is my major problem I don't really remember the 1st time because it was like about 12 years ago I think

 

[Toshido]

I've never used that tek, it looks outdated considering you posted this 10 years ago. You should do CYBS Max Ion.