Random FASA questions

[rewindtothestart]

I recently thought of a few random questions related to various extraction methods, and I'm curious if anyone can teach me the answers. I guess I could take some of this stuff at face value,

1) It's pretty common to use acetic acid/vinegar for A/B extractions. I recently started an extraction, but I didn't have any vinegar around the house. The thought crossed my mind that I could possibly use some surplus fumeric acid that I have in storage. From what I found online, it seems like it is a similar PH. Do you think this would work?

2) Fumeric acid seems to be poorly soluble in acetone. It does work for FASA, but I seem to need quite a bit to salt out all of the DMT in xylene. If it's poorly soluble in anhydrous acetone, it seems like it would be more soluble in partially hydrated acetone. What purpose does removing the water serve?

3) Has anyone analyzed the film that develops on top of acidic water as it cools? I'm curious if this is mostly fat, DMT, or a mixture.

4) Is it safe to say that harmala will not transfer over if changa is added to the acid soak? My wife is on antidepressants, and I don't want to take any chances. I have a pile of partially vaped changa that still smells like it has some DMT that I'd like to salvage.

5) My final question is regarding Cyb's Salt tek. In the tek, he recommends to add a saline mixture to the extraction. Wouldn't pouring excess salt into the solution accomplish the same thing? If not, why?

 

[AcaciaConfusedYah]

Hey rewindtothestart,

I'll try my best to answer your questions. Please see the quote below. I'll respond in Red.

I recently thought of a few random questions related to various extraction methods, and I'm curious if anyone can teach me the answers. I guess I could take some of this stuff at face value,

1) It's pretty common to use acetic acid/vinegar for A/B extractions. I recently started an extraction, but I didn't have any vinegar around the house. The thought crossed my mind that I could possibly use some surplus fumeric acid that I have in storage. From what I found online, it seems like it is a similar PH. Do you think this would work?

Yes, fumaric acid will work. In fact, there are many household acids that will work. People often use citric, acetic, fumaric, and sulfuric acid, as well. I like citric because it has high solubility in water and relatively cheap to purchase. It's safer to handle (than some of the strong acids, like hydrochloric acid), and will allow you to adjust the pH within a range that is required to form the DMT salt Not to mention, there is no smell - as noticed with vinegar (acetic acid). But, yes, fumaric will work.

2) Fumeric acid seems to be poorly soluble in acetone. It does work for FASA, but I seem to need quite a bit to salt out all of the DMT in xylene. If it's poorly soluble in anhydrous acetone, it seems like it would be more soluble in partially hydrated acetone. What purpose does removing the water serve?

If you add water to the acetone, you are increasing the ability for DMT fumerate to dissolve in the solution. Water will reduce the ability for the salt to precipitate and form a crystalline residue. Water is generally undesirable in the final product, because it may retain excess acid. When the precipitate dries, the fumaric acid will crystallize as if it is part of the DMT fumarate. There are other acids that you can use to salt DMT from an organic solvent, but they may not result in a crystal formation.


3) Has anyone analyzed the film that develops on top of acidic water as it cools? I'm curious if this is mostly fat, DMT, or a mixture.

I, personally, have not analyzed the film layer. I am sure that someone has, but it may take some digging in the forum and playing around with the search function.

4) Is it safe to say that harmala will not transfer over if changa is added to the acid soak? My wife is on antidepressants, and I don't want to take any chances. I have a pile of partially vaped changa that still smells like it has some DMT that I'd like to salvage.

Are you wanting to perform an "extraction" on the changa? It's probably doable - the harmalas will transfer to the aqueous layer during an acid soak, but they do not really have a high affinity for naphthta. You could always just soak the changa, strain it, add base, let the harmalas precipitate, filter them from the solution, and then extract with naphtha. It may not be a bad idea to get a reagent kit to check the final composition of the DMT - just to assure that there were no harmalas that made it into the organic layer. If you filter it adequately, you should be able to collect the harmala freebase alkaloids and use them at a different time.

5) My final question is regarding Cyb's Salt tek. In the tek, he recommends to add a saline mixture to the extraction. Wouldn't pouring excess salt into the solution accomplish the same thing? If not, why?
It's a theory that proposes DMT may be more likely to transfer to the organic layer based on ionic concentration. It's basically boosting the total ionic composition of the aqueous layer, and "pushing" the DMT out. The concept has been practiced by many, however I am unsure if there are any published findings of the results and comparison between adding the salt vs. not adding it. DMT can be extracted via either technique. Adding NaCl won't hurt anything.

 

[rewindtothestart]

Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions AcaciaConfusedYah! I always find myself asking why, not so much how.