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Re: harmala interactions

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Mozzy_Valarte

Rising Star
I see many people claiming the use of maois/ssri's with serotonergic psychedelics gives this inherent risk regardless of dose, this simply is not the case. Inhibitors like Harmine, THH and Harmaline are dose sensitive compounds, so even with the possible risks, you won't get serotonin syndrome or the other associated risks as long as you start really small and work your way upwards. Furthermore a hippyflip is a commonly done combination with no inherent risks listed, even though Pcilocybin mushrooms contain maois themselves. and there's been studies on the concurrent administration of dxm with mdma which reduced the serotonin deficit gotten from mdma alone. there's been maois administered with amphetamine in a clinical setting for treatment resistant adhd patients (the study is on pubchem). and finally there's even been studies showing that when amphetamines like methamphetamine are metabolised quicker, the user will typically exhibit more adverse psychological reactions, with an increased rate of addiction. So from a technical standpoint the combination of maois with serotonergic psychedelics isn't inherently bad, however its extremely dose sensitive, meaning you'll be wanting to reduce your dose 75% and take into account for a longer duration aswell, though if done correctly it means your able to reduce your dose of the drug by a multitude of times (2-10x) depending on the bioavailability of the given compound
[NOTE: I am NOT advocating the use of pharmaceutical ssri drugs with psychedelics, if you are to experiment with enzyme inhibitors, you use something that is a plant or atleast derived from one, and you start VERY small due to the 2-10x multiplication]
 
Mozzy_Valarte said:
I see many people claiming the use of maois/ssri's with serotonergic psychedelics gives this inherent risk regardless of dose, this simply is not the case. Inhibitors like Harmine, THH and Harmaline are dose sensitive compounds, so even with the possible risks, you won't get serotonin syndrome or the other associated risks as long as you start really small and work your way upwards. Furthermore a hippyflip is a commonly done combination with no inherent risks listed, even though Pcilocybin mushrooms contain maois themselves. and there's been studies on the concurrent administration of dxm with mdma which reduced the serotonin deficit gotten from mdma alone. there's been maois administered with amphetamine in a clinical setting for treatment resistant adhd patients (the study is on pubchem). and finally there's even been studies showing that when amphetamines like methamphetamine are metabolised quicker, the user will typically exhibit more adverse psychological reactions, with an increased rate of addiction. So from a technical standpoint the combination of maois with serotonergic psychedelics isn't inherently bad, however its extremely dose sensitive, meaning you'll be wanting to reduce your dose 75% and take into account for a longer duration aswell, though if done correctly it means your able to reduce your dose of the drug by a multitude of times (2-10x) depending on the bioavailability of the given compound
[NOTE: I am NOT advocating the use of pharmaceutical ssri drugs with psychedelics, if you are to experiment with enzyme inhibitors, you use something that is a plant or atleast derived from one, and you start VERY small due to the 2-10x multiplication]
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Can you please quote somewhere where it was said that mixing MAOIs such as harmalas with serotoninergic psychedelics (by that you the classic psychedelics which are 5HT2a agonists?) is dangerous? Ayahuasca is a mix of those two things and is considered very safe physically, if there is nothing else mixed in.

Mixing SSRIs with MAOIs is a completely different story altogether and most definitely a risk.

SSRIs are known to diminish the effects of classic psychedelics themselves, maybe even completely block the effects, but unless a MAOI is mixed in (which it shouldn´t ! ). I´ve not heard of SSRIs being considered risky to mix with psychedelics that have no MAOI.

Can you please quote a source for mushrooms containing MAOIs?

Also can you please link to the study you mentioned about amphetamine mixed with MAOIs being used in clinical setting?

Lastly, I don´t understand why you relate amphetamines with psychedelics when talking about MAOIs, those are completely different substances with very different pharmacology
 
The problem is there is two kinds of mao inhibitors are generally mistaken. İrreversible Mao inhibitors are the ones that is dangerous. İrrevesibles are like tranylcypromine, phenelzine, isocarboxazid, and selegiline (1). So if you want to combine you can use rimas like moclobemide or harmala alkoloids with classical tryptamine psychedelics like psy, lsd even ketamine at low doses( not higher than 100 mg). But to be on safe site I think it is better dont go over 150 mg moclobemid or 200 harmala alkolids. Second think if you combine even rimas with serotonergic phenyletilamines like mdma, mescaline, 2 CB or dob it may cause problems. I would not combine phenyetilamines with maoi also you can't get any benefit from that experience. I don't have any experience about taking 200 mg harmala alkolids and mdma probably it will be unpleasent at best I would not do that. Do you have any experiences about combining rimas with serotonergic phenyetilamines?

For further reading about Mao inhibition
1. Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOI) - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Thanks, be safe
 
I find case reports of maoi and mdma is fatal so don't do it. İn the report it says person takes moclobemide and mdma dose are not known. But avoid maoi and phenyetilamine combination!! İt is no no combination don't do it.

Death Following Ingestion of MDMA (ecstasy) and Moclobemide | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov www.ojp.gov

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A case of MAO inhibitor/MDMA interaction: agony after ecstasy - PubMed

After ingesting 3,4-methylene-dioxy-methamphetamine (MDMA) and the monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitor phenelzine, a 50 year old male developed marked hypertension, diaphoresis, altered mental status, and hypertonicity lasting 5-6 hours. This clinical course is typical of interaction between MAO...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Also read this article by Jonattan Ott says mescaline and maoi can be combined but probably dosages is important and I am not so sure about this...


Thanks be safe
 
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