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Elpo

Elpo

Rising Star
"What is the long-term goal/destination for psychedelics usage "


I just noticed this thread and found it really interesting as it is something that i have been talking about a lot with friends of mine who are one the same "quest" as most of us here i guess. (Couldn't help but join, hope that it is not against the rules...)
I must say it is hard to take something back with you from psychedelic experiences in a concrete way. I have had discussions with friends who ask themselves if that is the point of them?
For me personally, I don't think that ppl like Leary or Mckenna didn't have any issues after all the psychedelics they experimented with. I do believe it changed their perspective on life and the world though.
But I don't think they are equal to Nirvana. It would be too easy, if they were. In my opinion they are one of the options which we have, to change our perspective on our surroundings, and to new insights about everything.
Then it's up to us to do with them what we deem best. Other options are meditation, transdance...

For me the most important message is the fact that they show us how mysterious this world is and how lucky we are to experience it. This does not mean that i won't be angry or sad on some day to come... these are all parts of human nature, not worth fighting against. But it will give me insight as to how to overcome and live with these feelings during this amazing experience we call life. Like the volunteers in the Hopkins university said these experiences can be lifechanging and i agree with that, but you still have to go on with daily life and if this makes you feel better during this daily life, and be gentler with people, well that's the cherry on the icecream.

Portals to new worlds is what i like to call them. And why not give it a try and enter? The only danger is give them absolute power on the meaning of life and how to live it, when that knowlegde is not to be found there, but in ourselves. I strongly believe in the power of these substances, theraputic, creative, insightful... as tools for our own understanding and curiousity. A lot of people sense there is much more to it then meets the eye, and entheogens show us just that in a very "straight in your face" manner.


Peace
 
ah! i know i only joined today and all. but i feel ya on not being able to post out of "the nursery" i've been reading through alot of topics that i want to comment on and ask about but cant. It's like holding a treat in front of a puppy then taking it away :'(
 
Elpo said:
I must say it is hard to take something back with you from psychedelic experiences in a concrete way. I have had discussions with friends who ask themselves if that is the point of them?
For me personally, I don't think that ppl like Leary or Mckenna didn't have any issues after all the psychedelics they experimented with. I do believe it changed their perspective on life and the world though.
But I don't think they are equal to Nirvana.
Click to expand...

I don't think so either. I've watched quite a few old films of Leary. Early on I think Leary was sincere. But I think he used psychedelics to gain a few basic spiritual insights, then concentrated on using these "spiritual laws" he had discovered to help service his ego. Granted, Leary did face a lot of tough things in his life as well as persecution by just about everyone. That may account for part of his attitude during his later years. McKenna, I don't know. He seemed kind of like an eccentric scientist to me. Kind of like an absent-minded professor. I guess I felt positive about him, but I would not say I considered him "enlightened" or anything.

I'm curious - have you looked into Richard Alpert's life? As you may know, we was also a Harvard professor who left at the same time Leary did. But he took a far more spiritual path than Leary did. Still, watching him talk in his later years, I don't see that he radiates overwhelming contentment. It seems he was fairly content but yet still frequently struggled with a lot of the issues the rest of us struggle with. Albert Hoffman to me always seemed to be a very content person. But granted, I've only seen a few later interviews with him.

For me, the main goal of using psychedelics is to gain insight into my mind and personal makeup. This is the kind of thing that could likely be done, albeit a lot more slowly and more expensively, without drugs by using psychotherapy techniques. If I can gain insight to get past various hangups I've always had, then I have reached my goal. I'm not trying to become "super-human", "a god", to "transcend earthly existance", etc. This is not to say that I don't believe in the spiritual. I do, but for me personally I think my "mission" on this earth involves doing things in this life, some of which are for the benefit of others. Past experiences may have left me with ineffective life strategies that interfere both with my enjoyment of daily life and with my ability to do positive things (including for others) in this life. That's just what psychedelics mean to me personally. I'm not condemning anyone else who uses them for different reasons or saying that my use of them is "better" than others use, just speaking for myself here.


elphologist
 
I really don't think anyone has anything on Leary. Strongly suggest picking up _I_Have_America_Surrounded_, which uses Leary's biography as a backdrop to illustrate his philosophy. Also, check out the videos on mindmirror.com for more on how far ahead of the curve he was on *everything*. After his 30's, his mission was *YES TO LIFE*, what else could be more spiritual?
 
Leary is pretty much the man responsible for all the bans on psychedelic research. He made it too high profile and sensationalist before the research could be done. Others such as richard alpert and huxley were filtering the psychedelics out slowly to those intellectuals or officials that could handle them and leary sabotaged all their work.
 
Well, I suppose that depends on how you look at it. Leary went high profile because the intelligence agencies were shutting down all psychedelic research that did not work for them. I honestly prefer what we have now, with all public research on psychedelics banned, to having the control structure able to dictate their use. I do not believe that any one of us would have access to psychedelics if it weren't for Leary.

Either way, I don't see how that would reflect on the rest of his legacy or on his character.
 
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