• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Reflections on P. cubensis and other species

Bancopuma

Established member
Senior Member
Hi All, I would be interested in hearing the views of other psilonauts here on the Nexus who have experience with P. cubensis and other species how they feel about the differences in effects profile sometimes attributed to different species of mushroom. Have you noticed consistent differences in effects between species, or not? If you have, do you feel this is something intrinsic to a given mushroom, or do you think it is solely down to the influence of expectancy? Or perhaps a mixture of both? Do you hold certain species in higher regard than others, based on your experiences with them? If so, what species do you hold in high esteem, and why?

The current prevailing mainstream scientific view is that psilocin and its prodrug psilocybin in the mushrooms are the only active psychoactive compounds, and different species of mushrooms will vary only in potency. Any perceived differences between species are considered to be underpinned entirely by set and setting factors such as expectancy, rather than anything intrinsic to a given mushroom. However I am open to the possibility that the reality could be a little more nuanced and complex than this, while also acknowledging that set and setting factors such as expectancy etc are by far the most powerful sculptors of a mushroom experience. Along with a collaborator, we conducted a survey study to try and shed some more light on the effects profile people attribute to different species of mushroom (and whether differences in effects profile correlates with differences in genetic relatedness of species), with results forthcoming.

While the jury is still out on the possible modulating influence of other secondary compounds in these fungi (such as other tryptamines, terpenes and trace beta-carbolines), it is worth considering that we’ve barely scratched the surface of chemically profiling them, with one study paper concluding that "our understanding of the chemical diversity of these mushrooms is largely incomplete". We should be aware that these fungi exist not merely as packets of pure psilocybin/psilocin, but as chemically complex organisms. Fungi are master chemical alchemists, and there is a growing body of research suggesting that there may be more than psilocybin alone that contributes to the effect of these fungi.

Psilocybe cubensis is the best-known magic mushroom, having held centre stage in cultivator circles for over half a century, the span of influence woven by its wide mycelial web deep and far-reaching. This is for good reason, due to its suitability for domestication, with the ease of its cultivation, the speed of its growth, the bountiful flushes of mushrooms it yields, and its wide distribution. P. cubensis first entered into cultivation circles courtesy of the McKenna brothers, from spores sourced during their adventures in the Colombian Amazon. Writing under pseudonyms, they published the game-changing Psilocybin: Magic Mushroom Grower’s Guide, popularising the hobby of home psilocybin mushroom cultivation in the 1970s and effectively making psilocybin open-source.

I want to state from the outset that I haven't got it in for this particular mushroom...on the contrary, I am hugely appreciative of it and its existence, it has played a very important role, essentially making psilocybin open source. My first psychedelic experiences came through legally purchased Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms, and these early experiences were formative, shifting the trajectory of my life, and I feel them to have been profoundly life-enriching. Some of my most profound, exalted, beatific and blissful states of consciousness were gifted to me through experiences with this mushroom, so it will always hold a special place in my heart. This being said, I have relished becoming acquainted with other species of mushroom beyond P. cubensis in the interveening years.

However, in spite of the various positive qualities of P. cubensis, not everyone is a fan. Not all Mazatec shamans will use it, including the late Maria Sabina, for example. Richard Gutierrez, who played a key role in developing the popular “Penis Envy” strain of P. cubensis, notably does not like to partake of this mushroom himself, not having done so since the 1970s. In an interview with Hamilton Morris, he said that "it’s never been my mushroom of choice; I’ve always eaten [Psilocybe] cyanescens." Even cubensis connoisseur kingpin Terrence McKenna swore off heroic doses of this mushroom altogether following a particularly harrowing experience with it in 1998.

The Mazatec and other Indigenous groups who have long used these mushrooms tend to take the view that different species have distinct qualities or their own ‘signature’, with certain species revered over others or considered preferable for specific purposes. P. cubensis does not tend to be held in the highest regard in comparison to other species by the Mazatec. This view is shared by ethnobotanist Kathleen Harrison, who has worked extensively with the Mazatec and various Psilocybe species. The Mazatec are considered to posses the greatest knowledge of Psilocybe mushrooms among the various Indigenous Mexican groups that use these fungi, and having used these fungi for centuries, they may know a thing or two we don't.

The Mazatec view is often echoed by experienced cultivators. It isn’t uncommon for psilonauts to complain of more body load issues and a gnarlier onset when ingesting P. cubensis in comparison to other species. Body load may be experienced as a range of unpleasant physical sensations such as stomach ache, nausea, bloating, dizziness, feelings of being over-stimulated, temperature changes, or feelings of tension or of being weighed down. Such side effects have the potential to alter the overall tone of a trip. Experienced cultivators will sometimes refer to other species they have grown and sampled as “cube killers”; some will feel strongly enough to forgo ever growing or ingesting P. cubensis mushrooms from that point on. This one single thing is worth considering, as individual sensitivities to body load issues seem to vary, with some being more prone to them than others. Some report it as worsening over time; others have consumed P. cubensis in tea form...in some cases this helps reduce such side effects, but not in all cases it seems. I do wonder that some people who dismiss mushrooms over LSD say due to the side effects or bodily component, may not be vibing well with P. cubensis mushrooms in particular, and such people may fare better with other species of mushroom.

What I find intriguing in accounts from people who have sampled different species when comparing them to others such as P. cubensis, is the consistency with which certain aspects of their effect profile will crop up again and again (this is obviously in spite of the wide variation in set and setting factors, and the individuals having these experiences). Differences in body load and smoothness of come up are probably the most commonly reported differences, along with the clarity of headspace, the emotional tone of the headspace, and the visuals.

Below I'm including a few testimonials of people comparing experiences when sampling different mushroom species to P. cubensis:


P. cubensis vs P. ochraceocentrata* *what is being referred to in these accounts as P. natalensis/nats is in fact P. ochraceocentrata:

"I get less body load, less brain fog and feel more awake on Nats. The visuals are lighter and it just feels like an all around cleaner trip. On cubes I always feel a little bit of an emotional roller coaster and I tend to cry at least once per trip. Nats feel more stable and I tend to just feel relaxed, happy and peaceful. I love them and I’ll never grow anything else again. Best trips I’ve ever had."

"Way less body load/stomach upset. Way more intensely vibrant visuals (for me at least) and a way chiller head space. Nats/ochras have made it very hard to ever want to take cubes again. They are just better in every conceivable way."

"They feel very different to cubes to me, cubes are confusing, heavy on the body, and just overall aren’t very fun for me, while nats are light on the body, clearheaded, and are very fun, as well as having very distinct visuals (they have the typical shroom visuals+some of their own flair)."

"They are my favorite mushrooms all around. I don't get any symptoms of stomach ache or headaches the next day. They're strong enough and simply more easy and smooth of a transition. No anxiety or discomfort just enjoyable experience."

"For me cubes are very introspective and moody, but nats are so light and euphoric-and that’s great because I already overthink and take everything too seriously, so it was nice to let go and be silly by myself in my apartment."

"They are usually on par with Penis Envy. So around 2x but the trip is superior to cubes. They are more visual, highly euphoric and zero body load. I stopped taking cube’s because they made me bloated and miserable. Nats are really clean feeling. Even high doses are wonderful."

"I don’t see myself likely to trip on cubes again. Or at least not often. Nats have given me the best trips. When I trip on cubes I’ll often lost the ability to talk and that makes me feel very uneasy. The first time I took Nats I felt so clear headed. I was able to perfectly describe the visuals to my girlfriend and communicate."

"Can confirm these are cube killers! I will also most likely not dose cubes for an experience again. The come up is strong, but so clean! And to put clean into words I mean there is ZERO body load that you find with regular cubes. No stomach aching, no weird uncomfortable state between sober-peak, it just shoots you off in about 20-30 minutes."

"I won't exaggerate like I think some people have, but I will say this: they were right about it being a different kind of trip compared to cubensis. The body load was virtually non-existent; most of my cube trips are spent yawning and controlling my breathing but I didn't have any of that with Natalensis. I also didn't have any stomach issues, whereas I'm normally shitting around the time cubes kick in. The overall vibe of the trip was light and whimsical, rather than the heavier contemplative trips I usually get – I laughed more than I ever have on cubes."

"In short, P. Nats are like Cubes but without the drawback of being uneasy on the digestive system which normally causes tiredness. Even when making tea to avoid consuming chitin, I’d still become tired for about 30 minutes during the come up, but this didn’t happen taking P. Nats. While Cubes have put me in sleep-awake mindstates before, I was very alert on P. Nats."

"Nats are the top dog for trips. I have a shit ton of enigma and I don’t touch it unless I’m out of Nats. The trip is so much clearer and more vivid for me, and I feel like I’m in control of myself more."

"It was such a clean feeling trip too. Minimal nausea. Smooth come up. They’re a 10/10 for me and I probably won’t grow anything else for a while."


P. cubensis vs Panaeolus cyanescens

"I'm never taking cubes again. This trip was absolutely amazing! ... I didn't realize how different the trip would be. Soooooo much more enjoyable."

"They [Pan cyans] are so much cleaner! The trip is shorter but more intense. The visuals are just incredible. You feel very light compared to cubensis and the headspace is more manageable (at least at lower doses).

"I’ve shared my [Pan cyan] grows with friends and most say Pans are friendlier and give a more euphoric MDMA-like experience. They will never go back to cubes either."

"I have grown both cubensis and natalensis (ochraceocentrata) the last year, and while I had wonderful experiences with those mushrooms I always felt like I was still searching for something. I finally found what I was looking for in pan cyans."

"Most intense, euphoric, neon colorful trip that introduced me to pan cyan, most unlike any cubes I have ever had. Way preferred these over cubes. So deeply euphoric and extremely visual with saturated tropical neon colors. From then on I was hooked."

"I didn't really expect how good the differences were from Cube to [Pan cyan] estero. The visuals weren't comparable at all and the euphoria was so wonderful. My 2g trip was literally the best substance experience of my life next to marriage and kids. 10 hours of pure bliss."

"The trip feels VERY different in my opinion. To me, Pan Cyans are one of the absolute cleanest experiences you will ever have on a psychedelic mushroom, there are other good exotics, don't get me wrong, but the pan cyan is probably the best exotic, or in the top 5."

"They get a lot of hype and for good reason. Cleaner, crisper visuals. Nice euphoria and less nausea. They come on quicker, stay intense longer and fall off as quick as they came on about 6 hrs later. The upper echelon of shrooms. Hands down!"

"I strongly agree with starting with one-half gram dry. It was a much better experience than any cubes I've tried even at higher doses."

"Though Cubensis also gives such an afterglow even after harsh, negative trips, both the afterglow and the trip quality and positivity of Panaeolus cyanescens completely blows Cubensis out of the water."

"Pans are about 3x the strength of cubes. Pans don't have the body load of cubes and I haven't experienced any nausea with them."

"These are so different to cubes. Such a clean experience with crystal clear visions and realisations."

"IMO they [Pan cyans] are a lot better than cubes. No body noise and very intense and clear. More like LSD just a lot shorter. I don't cultivate many actives on a regular basis anymore, but out off all I have experienced to date, these are my favorite."

"They [Pan cyans] are electric! Very different feelings. The ceiling is way higher.. like I can't eat too many cubes but I could definitely eat too many pans. The comedown is clean too. Visuals are way more pronounced and color saturation is at a max. Really wonderful fruits."

"I have experimented with various strains of cubes- GT, PE, APE, APEr... etc, and none of them are even in the same universe as [Pan cyans] TTBVI. Cubensis is a pretender. They should be embarrassed to call themselves anything other than inferior."

I found it [Pan cyan] in an amazing trip it was completely different than a cube. Way more enjoyable, way less anxiety, in fact I don’t think there was anything that was not enjoyable, 10 out of 10. Just straight shock though on how strong it was and how long it lasted."

"They are the cleanest, smoothest, most peaceful mushroom vibe of all the species I have tried. Panaeolus cyanescens and tropicalis rank #1 in my book."


Haters will say I'm cherry picking these accounts - which is a totally fair critique! Hard to get around this really. I will say though that individual mileage and sensitivities do vary. While most comparisons hold them in a favourable light, not everyone is a fan of P. ochraceocentrata or Panaeolus cyanescens mushrooms (despite going into these experiences being positively primed to expect good experiences). This is interesting to me as while this doesn't detract from the power of expectancy effects at shaping mushroom experiences...it highlights that expectancy certainly isn't all-powerful at shaping them.

Some further supplementary reading options:

P. cubensis vs. Pan cyan

P. cubensis vs. P. ochraceocentrata

P. cubensis vs P. mexicana

A few other accounts that might be of interest:

Ps. Mexicana - Sacred Flesh of the Aztec Gods

Panaeolus Cyans vs Psilocybe Cubensis

Panaeolus Cyanescens are the true Magic Mushroom. I'm never growing or consuming Cubensis again

Mexicanas are really growing on me

Subtropicalis has easily become my favorite

Finally managed to get a full canopy from Subtropicalis

Anyway, I would be interested in hearing the views of other Nexians who have sampled multiple species about your reflections on this topic. And for anyone with an affinity for mushrooms who has only sampled P. cubensis, I would suggest that you perhaps consider sampling other species sometime.
 
Last edited:
I have only experienced cubensis and Psilocybe cyanescens. For 15 years almost I grew golden teachers and equadors. Now I’m growing PE6 and really like them. At the moment I am eating them multiple times a week in low doses.

I was taking Psilocybe cyans a bunch over winter. I don’t really go through my cyans before the season comes again so it’s not like I just use cubes if I run out of cyans.

Cyans are more like pure DMT, until you are paralyzed.

I have ulcerative colitis so cramping etc happens anyway with most tryptamines above micro/threshold doses. I personally can’t imagine a trip with no body load.

Also I should add I have visions at .5 grams of the cubes I grow. I’m sensitive so I don’t need huge doses of fungi matter inside of me.
 
So what should I add next? I just harvested my third flush of lions mane last night from my first grow with this species.. now I want to add more psilocybin actives.

I was going to try Natalensis but I will probly try 2 new species.

Baeocystis is one I want to try but never find when I go hunting. I do not hear much about that one either.

Also this is kinda off topic but what about psilo subs vs cubes vs azures and a few others in that grouping? Actually I might have eaten azures but I was never fully sure on the ID. I’ve found “cyans” with morphological traits of cyans and azures..and some ppl also thought they were azures some cyans(usually azures only on the US side of the line but it’s disputed ) ..afaik the theory put forth in Australia is that these are all escaped subaeruginosa that originated there. A project I want to get around to is growing all these “species” out in my yard to compare effects.
 
Also I will add that I do not find that tea removes all of the “side effects” from cubensis. It minimizes some of them and speeds the trip up IME.

I have been fine with micro doses and low doses up to .25g cubensis. Past that I make a tea or tincture. I can’t really deal with the bloating or cramps much from any real ayahuasca dose anymore either though so I extract usually and just do pharma plant extract’s.

On the other hand taking .1g of dry PE every other day seems to be actually helping my IBD atm so go figure. It’s a dose thing I’m sure.

Psilo Cyans are def more of a clean fast blast off but like I said you can also end up paralyzed for some time on these wood lovers and it’s something I experienced once in the woods at night with fresh mushrooms on a larger dose. That’s a pretty bad body high! In general though yeah they feel clean but still tea is better unless I am microdosing.
 
I am in anti-Cubensis group and one of my goals is to actively discourage people from using/growing them. ;)

My experience is that species of mushrooms are consistently different from each other and it is not due to expectation or placebo effects, it's intrinsic to given mushroom. You can not substitute 1g of Subtropicalis with 3g of Cubensis, it's not only about potency.

I've tried following species of Psilocybe: Cubensis, Natalensis, Semilanceata, Strictipes, and lot of various local varieties of Serbica/Bohemica/Arcana/Moravica woodlover group, then Subtropicalis and also little bit of Panaeolus Cyanescens, and now planning to try Panaeolus Bisporus.

As you described, effects differs in body load, clarity of visions/emotions, overall tone, tendency to induce ornamental visuals.
Btw. alll species are better fresh than dried (except WLP ofc). Freshness brings some vividness into the experience.

One big factor is also the taste of them ( or tea made of them).

My favourite choice is Subtropicalis and one specific variety of Arcana from particular locality.
Worst are Cubensis (due to murkiness). Serbica (body load) and Natalensis ( better than Cubes, but imo still in the same family) are also not acceptable for me.
I have to admit that Cubensis are very suitable for low dose experience, most likely due to its stimulation effects at that level.

My preferencies are basically ratio of body load to clarity of experience. There is always some body load, you are not going to avoid it, but I prefer little less of it in favour of clarity.

It's also very important to say that lot of people are not sensitive to these subtle differencies and will never discover how different mushrooms can be. This is similar to cannabis.
 
My experience is with cubes and liberty caps.

I prefer liberty caps, but also value cubes for the unique primal energy they carry. I had got excited about natalensis as a superior version of cubes but never got to try it.

Liberty caps are much more smooth and loving, the energetic theme is that of a fairytale land vs the primal energy of cubes. The primal energy also implies primitiveness imo, and liberty caps are just more refined in experience, and a more refined teacher. Liberty caps are more heart opening. I don't know if their phenethylamine contributes to this.

My impression, just from reading is that mexicana is an excellent mushroom. It has the reference of being the most cherished species in a long standing culture, and the modern reports indicate high refinement and "spirit filled" properties.

Even the visuals from each species is unique to it. Mexicana is reported to generate Aztec style imagery.

It appears that subtropicalis is a more recently discovered species. It grows in Mexico and has a similar appearance to mexicana. Also taking into account the recent praise it has been getting, they could be in the same clade, and their spirits might be very similar.

Long story short, I definitely believe that each species is objectively unique, and a universe unto itself.
 
Last edited:
Liberty caps are much more smooth and loving, the energetic theme is that of a fairytale land vs the primal energy of cubes. The primal energy also implies primitiveness imo, and liberty caps are just more refined in experience, and a more refined teacher. Liberty caps are more heart opening. I don't know if their phenethylamine contributes to this.
I'm excited to hopefully be able to try them this autumn, then. I have always heard people here regard them as inferior to cubes, but I think it's because they are smaller and grow naturally here: as with fruit and vegetables, many people seem to prefer bigger and exotic.
 
Yeah, the poor man's shroom, gathered from the wild 😆 sorry, sometimes more simple, more natural is actually better. A true "inferiority" is that it is unpredictable and limited to it's season. Well verse yourself in your local nature, this mushroom grows in huge quantities each year. It's possible to have more than you need for a year if you store them properly.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, the poor man's shroom, gathered from the wild 😆 sorry, sometimes more simple, more natural is actually better. A true "inferiority" is that it is unpredictable and limited to it's season. Well verse yourself in your local nature, this mushroom grows in huge quantities each year. It's possible to have more than you need from a year if you store them properly.
What about that they are unpredictable? Those are the ones I use mostly and only occasionally I get cubensis. I don't think I've hard that they are more unpredictable then others... But they grow in the wild under a relatively short season and conditions vary a lot. But my experiences are also varied 🙃 but I have not thought it to because of the mushrooms. You normally eat a quite large number so I thought individual variance would equal out.
 
@murklan by unpredictability I was referring to their availability: where, when, and in what quantity they grow. They are entirely dependent on the conditions of the ecosystem with it's variance in weather each year. As are all wild species of life. Sorry for the ambiguity. My experiences with them were all consistently strong and high quality.
 
There’s tons of libs here only you have to get onto private property to access the areas. Do y’all just have open access to the right type of grassland with grazing animals?
 
I like adding cubensis (goo) extract to my teas. It feels smoother that way compared to eating it, while the guayusa in the tea offsets (some of) the sedation and the caapi leaves add a mellowing effect.

Psilocybin is decriminalized in my area and it seems like things are continuously unfolding in that regard, so I wonder if different varieties of mushrooms will eventually become widely available… I would love to try some of the different varieties that I hear people on here talking about.
 
There’s tons of libs here only you have to get onto private property to access the areas. Do y’all just have open access to the right type of grassland with grazing animals?
Here there are not a lot, and they just grow in October, only at relatively high altitude. I think it's because it's a relatively dry climate. But yes, there are plenty of communal pastures here in the mountains.
 
@murklan by unpredictability I was referring to their availability: where, when, and in what quantity they grow. They are entirely dependent on the conditions of the ecosystem with it's variance in weather each year. As are all wild species of life. Sorry for the ambiguity. My experiences with them were all consistently strong and high quality.
Aha, I see! I can relate to that unpredictability )
 
Yes, it does sometimes when fresh, but very rarely.
It seems that cyans are much more prone to it.
Funny, I've used a lot of UK cyans and never noticed it. They'd be dried or cooked into soup, though, so maybe that's a relevant factor. Is aeruginascin that thermally labile, perhaps? It's fairly easy for the trimethylammonium component to break away and leave behind a vinylindole or tryptophol derivative, in a manner broadly similar to this:
1756303660328.png
except the spirocyclopropyl is on the indolic pyrrole ring, trimethylamine is the leaving group, and the 3-membered ring opens either through deprotonation (→vinylindole) or hydration (→tryptophol).
 
Back
Top Bottom