Regular use of DMT

[sdbc]

Hi

First of: Thank you for a very nice forum! Its actually the first forum I've ever seen with no flame wars, where people are nice to each other consistently, and can discuss things in an unbiased way. RESPECT!! :shock: :d

I wasn't allowed to post this in the right forum, so here it is, could you please move it?

I have read about some of you using/having used DMT daily over a longer period of time (here).

And I would like to ask a few questions to those who have experience with this:
Can you describe the circumstances? How did it affect your life? What were your reasons? Make more up for yourself!

I think this could be very interesting as it will give a more in-depth knowledge of the workings of a drug.

Thank you.
Namaste

 

[dread]

When I used DMT daily, it was mostly because it was something new and shiny I wanted to play with. I tend to be like that with lots of things. After the novelty wears off, you're just left with taking the substance as it is.

I don't see much harm in doing DMT weekly or even daily, but I don't see much benefits to it either.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

DMT really helps me get perspective on life. Initially, i'd agree with the above statement. It was novel, it was new, and it was everything i'd been searching for. Initially, I went a little wild with it and wound up with a backlog of experiences to integrate and understand. Now, i probably average around several times a month and I find it to be incredibly grounding. For me, I find it allows me to tap into Love and drop the petty bullshit we all too frequently get caught up in. It's like taking a break from the reality/world that has been manufactured and constructed around us and sinking into the true infinite consciousness of existence.

 

[sdbc]

How long were these 'honeymoons' of yours? I was more asking to long-term daily use, sorry if I didn't made that clear.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Define "long-term"...

Also, our replies echo what i've heard generally, which is, essentially, there is no long term daily use. It's not the kinda thing you're gonna use daily for a year or two. There are no negative health effects associated with DMT. I would suppose that the most severe side effect of smoking freebase everyday would be potential lung-damage from smoking freebase.

As DMT is an endogenous neurotransmitter, I would be quite surprised to hear of anything else...other than maybe an altered view of what many would claim to be "true reality"...but i think we all know how subjective that is...

 

[acolon_5]

Ayahuasca has been proven in a few scientific test to be healthful mentally, spiritually, emotionally, and physically.

DMT itself does not appear to be harmful, although smoking DMT cannot be very good for the lungs.

From what I have seen and experienced first hand, I find that semi-regular use CAN be beneficial. It is kind of a "reset" button for me and quite a few of my friends. It puts a new perspective on life, brings depression under control, boosts motivation to better oneself, and gives a wonderful day or two aferglow.

As others have said though, there are probably VERY few daily long-term users of DMT. After that intial honeymoon phase DMT use seems to drop off dramatically from daily to weekly, monthly, or even semi-annually. You would probably be hard pressed to find someone that has used DMT daily for more than a month or two.

 

[Jorkest]

yeah you can smoke it daily for a month or two..but you really do kinda get over doing it all the time....oral dmt with maois is a much more enjoyable experience...and more usable...granted...the smoked spice flash is amazing...its just too short and sometimes you cant even remember what happened...and that sucks!

 

[sdbc]

Define "long-term"...

That would be a half year or more I would say.

Also, our replies echo what i've heard generally, which is, essentially, there is no long term daily use. It's not the kinda thing you're gonna use daily for a year or two.

I'm aware that it has nearly no misuse potential, but I could imagine it being used daily in a spiritual context, as with the author of the thread I linked to.

There are no negative health effects associated with DMT. I would suppose that the most severe side effect of smoking freebase everyday would be potential lung-damage from smoking freebase.

As DMT is an endogenous neurotransmitter, I would be quite surprised to hear of anything else...other than maybe an altered view of what many would claim to be "true reality"...but i think we all know how subjective that is...

Yea physical health would properly not be affected, but what about psychological health? I could see a potential for damage from not getting the experience incorporated properly..

And because its a neurotransmitter (which I don't believe have been proved, except that its in our blood etc.) doesn't mean it can't be dangerous, theres the chemicals involved with stress for example, they are pretty darn harmful.

But thank you all for the answers! Its interesting to know that people tend to not use it to often, even though they are spiritual beings (which I assume many DMT users are).

Namaste

 

[SnozzleBerry]

that would be a half year or more I would say

Well, even in the article you're sighting the use is not greater than a half year. I believe he states it's been about 5 months of such use. I would also like to point out that the collection of people found on the nexus are pretty anomalous and that this account is an anomaly among an anomalous group. Just some food for thought...

I'm aware that it has nearly no misuse potential, but I could imagine it being used daily in a spiritual context, as with the author of the thread I linked to.

Once again, I would claim anomaly. While DMT reset principle is greatly healing and beneficial, ayahuasca and other entheogens offer much more as spiritual sacraments. Spice can fill this role, it just does so in a very different manner. Everyone's different and to each their own.

Yea physical health would properly not be affected, but what about psychological health? I could see a potential for damage from not getting the experience incorporated properly..

Well, this would be one reason why daily use is generally not seen in the context you are talking about. Generally speaking, it takes a little time to incorporate these experiences into your life. As a result, if you're not incorporating your experiences well or wish to cherish a particular experience for a bit, or something along those lines, you're probably not gonna keep smoking daily, hence the reason daily use becomes rare.

And because its a neurotransmitter (which I don't believe have been proved, except that its in our blood etc.) doesn't mean it can't be dangerous, theres the chemicals involved with stress for example, they are pretty darn harmful.

First read Barker and Christian's paper in the International Review of Neurobiology entitled "Dimethyltryptamine: An Endogenous Hallucinogen", then read Strassman's book both for additional evidence supporting the claim that it's a neurotransmitter and for an answer to your statements regarding stress chemicals (you make a valid point re: stress chemicals, but it's not true in relation to DMT).

Also, some more brain food, haha, i made a pun and didn't even realize it...After glucose (which provides energy to the brain and is essential for it to function) DMT is the most actively transported molecule across the blood/brain barrier. Remember, the blood/brain barrier allows certain things through, blocks damn near everything, and actively transports almost nothing...Glucose is #1, DMT is #2. Why would your brain take up DMT with such voracity if it was either unrecognized or toxic?

 

[acolon_5]

Again I'd like to point out that long term studies on the UDV and Santo Daime have shown that people who use Aya (dmt + MAOI) are mentally healthier (less alcohol + drug abuse, less depression, and a feeling of contenment among other things)

These are people that take it weekly. Also if we look at currandero's of Brazil and Peru these people take Aya daily during their apprenticship, and sometimes daily as a healer. They frequently live into their 80s+ with minimal (if any) health care.

I truly believe that DMT is not dangerous to the mind, the body, or the soul. As with anyting though, moderation is important. Smoking DMT every hour every day for years on end PROBABLY is not the best thing for you.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

^^yea what he said.

The use of extracted DMT aside, the use of plants that contain DMT have consistently been shown to increase the sense of contentment and well being many of us seek. Doblin's psilocybin study suggests the same for mushrooms.

 

[sdbc]

Well, even in the article you're sighting the use is not greater than a half year. I believe he states it's been about 5 months of such use.

Yea your right, but I'll take my statement about the half year back then, I still think 5 months is long-term I find i difficult putting numbers on something like that.

I would also like to point out that the collection of people found on the nexus are pretty anomalous and that this account is an anomaly among an anomalous group. Just some food for thought...

Good point. I forgot all about the kids smoking salvia on youtube hehe.

Once again, I would claim anomaly. While DMT reset principle is greatly healing and beneficial, ayahuasca and other entheogens offer much more as spiritual sacraments. Spice can fill this role, it just does so in a very different manner. Everyone's different and to each their own.

When I said DMT I wasn't talking about smoked DMT only, I was also referring to ayahuasca (+analogs), IV/IM, plugged and what not I don't know, but its my experience that DMT is mostly used by spiritual people, its not as 'fun' as other psychedelics, and pretty intense. But I have no statistics, you could just as well be right.

Well, this would be one reason why daily use is generally not seen in the context you are talking about. Generally speaking, it takes a little time to incorporate these experiences into your life. As a result, if you're not incorporating your experiences well or wish to cherish a particular experience for a bit, or something along those lines, you're probably not gonna keep smoking daily, hence the reason daily use becomes rare.

Yea thats what I thought, but seeing that other thread, with two people talking about daily use, made me curious about weather there were others using/having used it daily, and weather they got problems from not incorporating it.

First read Barker and Christian's paper in the International Review of Neurobiology entitled "Dimethyltryptamine: An Endogenous Hallucinogen" In International Review of Neurobiology

Will do, if i can get hold of it, can you help me?

then read Strassman's book both for additional evidence supporting the claim that it's a neurotransmitter

I've read some of the book, and a lot about it, so I'm not 100% sure, but: As far as I understand, Strassman haven't got any conclusive evidence, and a lot of - albeit interesting, but nevertheless - theory. IMO I think he is being a little tunnel sighted, a lot of the experiences people report on 5-Meo-DMT fx. are a lot more like NDE's and msystical experiences than DMT trip-reports (read Tryptamine Palace by James Oroc). Not to say I don't believe theres a conection between DMT/5-Meo-DMT/Pinoline/etc. and a lot of our lives 'peak experiences', cus' I do, but lets not make believe into fact (as if there were such a thing :lol. And lets keep our open-mindedness!

and for an answer to your statements regarding stress chemicals (you make a valid point re: stress chemicals, but it's not true in relation to DMT).

I was just pointing out that "As DMT is an endogenous neurotransmitter, I would be quite surprised to hear of anything else" isn't purely logical thinking, but fuck that, I can see your point.

After glucose [...] DMT is the most actively transported molecule across the blood/brain barrier. [...] Why would your brain take up DMT with such voracity if it was either unrecognized or toxic?

Interesting, any sources? Again, its not that I don't believe theres a connection. Just trying to be critical while open-minded

And i saw this in my previous post: "Its interesting to know that people tend to not use it to often, even though they are spiritual beings (which I assume many DMT users are)." which sounds like I meant that theres a connection between spiritual people and DMT per se, I was tired, and what I really meant was that some of the spiritual people using DMT, would properly have thought about/used it daily for longer periods. And I was properly projecting there I tend to have an 'all or nothing' mentality.

Hehe writing on this forum MAKES me tired, I think its the light-on-dark theme

This is a very nice forum, thank you!
Namaste


EDIT: Sorry for making such a long post, I will refrain from using those comment bb-codes so much in the future

 

[SnozzleBerry]

No, I definitely agree with you on Strassman's book. It does however contain useful instructions for future people trying to get psychedelic studies done and has some pretty decent research and background buried throughout the book. His conjectures on whatever I generally skip over, the trip reports are infinitely more interesting. I'm gonna go find some sources for you and see if I can't dig up that old article.

In the meantime, here's an article on exogenous DMT in mice, once again I don't have the full article (you can purchase it), but it highlights DMT uptake across the blood brain barrier.

EDIT
Also, as to ayahuasca, there are plenty of people who dose daily or close to it and report very positive things. I interpreted your use of DMT to mean freebase/fumarate. My fault for that. That use however is very different from smoking it and integrating/functioning while partaking in ayahuasca is markedly different than smoked. Personally, in that sense, I don't feel DMT can match the experience of the plants.

 

[sdbc]

These are people that take it weekly. Also if we look at currandero's of Brazil and Peru these people take Aya daily during their apprenticship, and sometimes daily as a healer. They frequently live into their 80s+ with minimal (if any) health care.

Yea I've heard about the shamanistic apprenticeship, but not much, could someone recommend some material about it? And are you sure its Aya as in caapi+dmt, or could it be 'just' the caapi?

And about the health research I know about the MAPS research, is that the only one conducted? Any references?

Namaste

 

[d*l*b]

First read Barker and Christian's paper in the International Review of Neurobiology entitled "Dimethyltryptamine: An Endogenous Hallucinogen" In International Review of Neurobiology

Will do, if i can get hold of it, can you help me?

Not the full text, but the paper is on Google Books:

International Review of Neurobiology

 

[sdbc]

Yea I found that when I googled it, but I would like the full text if possible.
But thank you anyway!

 

[polytrip]

I think that for regular use of smoked DMT, doing extractions is the greatest health hazard.

Someone posted the question whether DMT could cause braincancer, refering to how terence mckenna died.
I think that is is most likely that it wasn't the DMT that caused the tumor but the vapors of solvents.
If you do extractions regularly, you might inhale lot's of naphta or whatever solvent you use.
This is at least as bad as smoking cigarettes everyday if not worse, depending on how well ventilated your kitchen is and how small, how much of wich solvent you use, etc.

But i think it's basically very underestimated.
People tend to think that naphtha isn't that bad, only because most of the other solvents are extremely harmfull.

It's not for no reason that most of us can't stand the disgusting odor of most solvents.

DMT itself is harmless. I think most people find it rejuvenating.
and ayahuasca is actually very good for you.

For days after an ayahuasca journey i feel very energetic. And when i look in the mirror i actually look like i'm a lot younger.
Everybody who takes ayahuasca regularly will know these effects.

 

[Aegle]

I think that for regular use of smoked DMT, doing extractions is the greatest health hazard.

Someone posted the question whether DMT could cause braincancer, refering to how terence mckenna died.
I think that is is most likely that it wasn't the DMT that caused the tumor but the vapors of solvents.
If you do extractions regularly, you might inhale lot's of naphta or whatever solvent you use.
This is at least as bad as smoking cigarettes everyday if not worse, depending on how well ventilated your kitchen is and how small, how much of wich solvent you use, etc.

But i think it's basically very underestimated.
People tend to think that naphtha isn't that bad, only because most of the other solvents are extremely harmfull.

It's not for no reason that most of us can't stand the disgusting odor of most solvents.

DMT itself is harmless. I think most people find it rejuvenating.
and ayahuasca is actually very good for you.

For days after an ayahuasca journey i feel very energetic. And when i look in the mirror i actually look like i'm a lot younger.
Everybody who takes ayahuasca regularly will know these effects.

Polytrip

So true, I think if you are someone who does regular extractions its best to wear some sort of protective gear, gas mask, gloves, goggles. As naptha and most of the chemicals used in extractions are quite harmful and carcinogenic. If you want to go the extra mile i personally think its best to use Jorkest D-limonene Teq instead which is much safer and healthier to conduct.


Much Peace and Understanding