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Religion and DMT

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crakkbakk

Rising Star
I am a religious man, and the more post I read here about DMT the less I want to try it.

I feel as if a lot of you here believe that the hallucenations you recieve from DMT are different from other tryptamine drugs in that these are actually real, you come in contact with entities, who are also real, and most of these entities are a type of god.

Most drug users tend to be individuals who respect analytical thought processing. To see so many of these kinds of people take a drug and then believe what the hallucenate on it as real, scares me.

I do not want to smoke up some spice and then start to believe the hallucenations and stop believing in Christ.

I personally take hallucenogens to become aware of my weaknesses and aware of how to fix them.

I do not want to take a hallucenogen to "meet potential entities." I do not want to meet space aliens. Elfs. Nothing.

I want to learn about myself and my situation.

I'm pretty sure my God does not want me to seek contact with spiritual beings (angels, demons etc).

When you take DMT, do you always see entities? Is there any control to this?





Note well: For those of you who believe in what they see on DMT, this isn't bashing you or offensive. This is presenting my fear for turning away from my religion and my intention on ingesting DMT.
 
You must be aware that psychedelics will eventually rub your nose in whatever you don't want to see or are afraid of. Whatever the most terrifying thing is that you can imagine you will probably eventually experience. That is part of the learning experience. Once you are able to face up to what you want to avoid and relax your terror or fear then you will transcend it, let it go, and gain strength from the experience.
 
I do not want to smoke up some spice and then start to believe the hallucenations and stop believing in Christ.
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I bet that only people who previously believe that immaterial entities exists may come to the conclusion that what they saw was 'real'. There was a poll on that forum and if I well remember, about 50/50 people believes that entities have 'real' and independant existence. That's not that much.

I personally take hallucenogens to become aware of my weaknesses and aware of how to fix them.
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Indeed a good purpose.

I do not want to take a hallucenogen to "meet potential entities." I do not want to meet space aliens. Elfs. Nothing.
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You can not control this, no way.

I want to learn about myself and my situation.
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No doubt that you will.

I'm pretty sure my God does not want me to seek contact with spiritual beings (angels, demons etc).
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Whatever you imagine by anges or demons (from illustration or movies you have seen), what you will see under DMT guidance will be totally different. People uses words like demon, aliens, entities because of lack of other words.
I believe that what I see is only a creation of my mind. However, the word 'only' is very restrictive while what is seen is always fascinating, new, questionning and can not be directly linked to any known things.

That's why people use words like 'alien'. But not known do not mean 'alien'... It is a common shortcut to associate 'not known' with aliens or Gods, or demons. Be modern and try to accept that 'not known'... just means not known ;)


When you take DMT, do you always see entities? Is there any control to this?
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No, and no. The only small 'control' you may have is to be as relaxed as possible, and not physically tired.
 
Not all people believe that entities brought forth from the dmt experience are actually real. Many people hold a sceptical point of view. It is a fascinating phenomenon however when contact with entities happens.

But just as with most psychedelic experiences, things are always subject to interpretation. Personally I am a total atheist and I have had very strong experiences (i.e. talking with the brightest light in a heaven-like environment and accompanied with what could have been angels) which did not shook my belief system the slightest. Other people could have interpreted this as an ultimate entheogenic/spiritual/whatever experience.

It is indeed the case that many people take the dmt entities seriously. I mean no offence here; the dmt world feels otherworldly real, one may forget totally that he/she's a human from earth sitting on a comfy couch with a pipe in his/her hands and looking like sleeping to thirds. It is a massive shift in perception and understanding of self and surroundings. However, not all people take the entities for real or even if they do they do not necessarily have to ascribe them divine or similar properties.

For me, the dmt world is purely recreational (loads of beautiful hallucinations), I find though that the next 10-15min after I return from a journey are definitely psychedelic. This is the only part of a journey that can bring something useful back to everyday life.
 
Crakkbakk-
Some of us in here have been shown the ultimate truth of Jesus and most other prophets true teaching....that we are Gods just as they were...when Jesus said "God is within you", he meant it! Screw the priest's "interpretations", this was meant literally. The "enlightenment" that many eastern religions speak of is nothing but the utter & total realization of knowing that you are God. You are Light. Reality is light. YOU ARE LIGHT! All is ONE. There is nothing except your consciousness!!!! As Davis Icke says- "Infinite Love is the ONLY truth...ALL ELSE IS ILLUSION" Even the quantum physicists are leaning toward this fact. The more they try to break matter down into pieces, the more ghosts they find! THERE IS NO MATTER. ONLY LIGHT. When light of the right frequencies interact at the right resonance- "matter" basically POPS into existence!

The entheogens were put on this planet by God (us) to discover and use as tools to aid in our awakening. Why else would our brains have receptors for these molecules???? To be afraid of them and to only believe what your church thinks is right is nothing more than putting your head in the sand. Believe you me- you will be 1000% MORE SPIRITUAL of a person after entheogen use......but most likely LESS RELIGIOUS. You may learn that the only Hell is the one we put ourselves in here on Earth. There is NO DEATH. So there really is no need to fear anything! If you don't get it right (wake up) in this life, there's always next time!

So whatever you decide to do? It's all good. But if not now....how many more lifetimes until the great opportunity presents itself again???? Don't psych yourself out. BE NOT AFRAID.

Namaste-

-Boypony
 
i hate to break it to you but christ is just as much of a figment of your imagination. christ didn't rise from the dead or any of those other fairy tales written down in that grand waste of paper known as the bible. what are you too afraid of the devil eating your soul?

if you want to use psychedelics to re-enforce your beliefs in something thats already not real why bother?

and no these plants were not put here by "god" to help us. these plants make these chemicals to either kill your or attract you or something in between. try to look at it from the plants point of view.

when will the human race wake up and realize its not that important? arrogant humans...
 
Listen...i grew up catholic and no offense to you have never felt 1 lil bit of actual spirituality from the experiences. I tried, id beg god to show me himself etc and feel for 1 millisecond what they were talkin about in church. Never happened! when i found psychedelics and DMT especially i felt that something that i had been searching for that whole time...it was real and theres no explanation besides that they are spiritual encounters and yes there is something else out there.

If your faith is strong and true and thats what you believe it that will not change. Your not gonna start worshipping DMT entities, i dont think many of us do. we may believe that these things are real some of us dont. I believe there is something out there and DMT is a connection to the whatever it is!
 
I understand your ambivalence towards DMT. You could try to seek contact with the santo daime movement. This is a, by the vatican officially recognized catholic movement. They take ayahuasca, wich for ages has been a sacred brew to south american indians. It contains DMT.
 
I was brought up as catholic and never believed a word of it, always asked questions at school and was always given the poorest most illogical answers which made me question ALL religions from an early age. As i grew into teenage years I started taking pyschedelics which immediately showed me how religion is the main mind control system used on this planet to pull the blinds down over the population from the real truths of what we are and what our purpose is. I soon began reading and listening to great thinkers like Terence McKenna and reading about what pyschedelics reveal to us and teach us.

I feel this is not want you want to hear at all but a strong psychedelic expereince such as DMT will surely strip down and dissolve any beleif system youve built up in your lifetime, if you get a good dose, it will kill you pyscologically and you will know what death is and what it feels like, you will not have a concept of the bible or jesus to guide you through and hopefully as a post previous said you will simply know that these things are insignificant in the big picture of being an entity in this universe.

If you deeply feel that religion is for you and your beleifs in gods is important then i suggest not doing any pyschedelics at all, they are tools for opening the mind and freeing them of the controls programmed into us by authorities. Man always feels he needs authorities and so he invented god and religion, wrote books for us to follow but always never sees fit to take responsibility for his own existance in this great infinite universe.

As for the entities that you will no doubt come across, they are as real as real experience. Your mind is real right? you experience it and all your thoughts and feelings are real, so when you use a tool like DMT which is a chemical key to trip inward you are experiencing other dimensions, the dimension of the mind which we are all embedded, dreams, astral projections are all referenced in this territory, it is irrellevant exactly where in space-time you are or these entities are, because dimensions are within and without space and time. Dimensionality is infinite, every mind in this universe is another universe we are all part of the multiverse, all one big entity. Real experience is real.
 
Linga-
Very well put.
I use the word "God" interchangeably with "Reality" & "All That Is"....in my metaphysical voyages I have experienced Oneness and the truth that I am all that there is in my private universe.....and all that I used to consider the material world is an illusion...like a reflection in a mirror...or just a thought. I truly believe that what most consider the "real" universe could vanish in a microsecond when the conditions are right. Maybe 2012....or maybe when they get that new LHC particle accelerator up to speed! :)
 
Alright look... Jesus was a real dude, I believe he was the Son of God and died for our sins... BUT... I also believe in the teachings of Buddha and of the Taoist and of many other religions.

All religions and prophets are true and real... they all just veiw god from different points and history and from different perspective and interpretied it differently.

The infomation you may recieve from entheogens is real and divine if you ask me.
 
Alright look... Jesus was a real dude, I believe he was the Son of God and died for our sins... BUT... I also believe in the teachings of Buddha and of the Taoist and of many other religions.

All religions and prophets are true and real... they all just veiw god from different points and history and from different perspective and interpretied it differently.
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Again why? Religions say a bunch of things that are not real and definatly not true. How do you know Jesus was a real dude. Ever played the game telephone? Think of playing that for 2000 years.

Edit: Actually I will avoid any discussions on religion because it gets me too fired up hehe :p
 
It seems strange to me that someone would not want to use DMT because their understanding of God might be changed or even just challenged. Anything I can do that will further my understanding and belief of the truth and reality of The Godhead I believe is a worthy endevor.

Maybe the original poster already has some serious reservations about his/her religion/belief systems. These may be buried rather deep, but it sounds to me like fear of learning what one has been taught as "the truth" may not really be 100% truth is the real issue.

Personally, my relationship with The One has grown much stronger since my use of DMT. My belief in the afterlife has been reaffirmed.

Some people believe DMT is only for pretty colors, others beleive it is a gateway to the mind, and others believe it opens the doors to other relms of reality... I believe DMT does all of these things and more.

To say you will do only psycadelics that will not challenge your beleif system, I believe, is really missing the point and quite close minded in my opinion.
 
a agree with you acalon...if your on a path of seeking spiritual truths you need to be open minded to all avenues even if theyl disagree with and challenge everything youve experienced. Like i said if your beliefs are strong and true they wont be shattered cuz they are the truth. Be open minded!
 
crakkbakk said:
I am a religious man, and the more post I read here about DMT the less I want to try it.
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There isn't any typical experience or knowledge that you can reference that'll correlate to what your state of consciesness becomes a few moments after you sat down the DMT pipe... nothing. It's useless to draw upon your religion to decide if you should do it or not, and it's useless to interpret the experience in light of your religious knowledge. It's completely alien in comparison to anything else... it's incomparable to anything else to a degree that's impossible to express or contemplate. If you meet "entities," you may call them angels, demons, spirits, or aliens... they're all of the above, and/or none of the above. When you find yourself entering that state of consciesness you might tell yourself, "O.K. time to put everything I thought I knew on hold!, ...what is this? what is this?!?!?!?" You might forget what you had just done, but knowing that you did it to yourself, worry that you've taken the wrong thing and made a fatal mistake! And then it's like going for a ride on a tornado (thru multi-dimensionality), or a transporter beam from an alien mothership! You might find yourself delivered into an incomprehensible alternate reality that's completely alien, and it may be filled with bliss and/or terror. And then you'll return, and as the experience blows out of your mind, your mind will be blown!!! You'll see the color and shape of things, as you've never seen, as you return to your body. Everything will be jeweled and electrified or like brilliant jewels. and you may be shaking and holding your head, and exclaiming "WHHOOOAAAAAA!!!!!" ............and then you'll forget all about it!
 
Let me say that I have extensive experience with all sorts of hallucenogens and their personal experiences, ranging from the complete destruction of mind from psilosybin mushrooms to the most deep introspective experience of 2c-e and to the utter..mind fuck? of salvia divinorum. Hallucenogens do not scare me. I have tripped many, many times on many drugs and many levels of dosing on them.

Not once has a hallucenogenic drug torn me from my faith in Christ. Even pulled apart. Nothing. From a spiritual standpoint, hallucenogens have simply reaffirmed my faith. Not necessarily strengthened it, never weakening it, just reaffirming.

I have enough experience with hallucenogens to know how they make the mind work.
1) Everything "learned" from hallucenogens is actually just awareness. It was obvious the whole time, the person just either didn't see it or didn't know how to put it into words/apply it to their life.
2) They are different for everyone. There is no same trips between two people. Hallucenogens are just really different for every person who uses them.
3) There are similarities between people, but when these similarities are compared, they become vastly different on how they are applyed.
4) This is because it is a matter of perception and personal life experience.
2 examples relating to this post:
1) If you are religious and percieve your faith as the sole reason for existance and have dedicated your life to this, as well as having life experiences to confirm this perception (seeing what good the church has done for you/your family/your neighborhood, having a spiritual experience, etc), you are going to take hallucenogens and have "amazing realizations" that religion is amazing and God is the way to go. You really felt this way the entire time and this wasn't that amazing as it was really obvious, but during your trip you felt it was earth shaking. Every time I learn something new from tripping I can always look back on it and either say "Wow, that was obvious, I should have known that" or "Wow, that was obvious and I had already known that, it wasn't that big of a deal but I was just triping balls."

If you are anti-religion and percieve it as a method of control, as some of the people on this forum respectfully believe, and have also had life experiences to confirm this perception (having parents who were religious and were controlling, seeing people who had a tendency to be submissive be religious, etc), you are going to take hallucenogens and have "amazing realizations" that religion is just a method of control. You really felt this way the entire time but either could not put it into words or it just wasn't that big of a realization. Hallucenogens put the hard-to-say-but-obvious into words.




I am not scared that the tryptamine psychedelic effects (like when I have taken LSD, substituted/acetoxy/hydroxy trpytamines, psilosybin, etc.) will make me question my faith. I am scared that DMT will make me believe in these entities.

After reading the responces in this thread, I am relieved that most people don't actually believe in the entities. I probally just read over 5-6 threads that coincidently sided with people believing in them and didn't get the chance to read the other threads.

Thank you for the responces!
 
I'l say it again. If your faith is true and strong nothin will take that away. Like u said uve done psychedelics and your faith is still there, even stronger after the trip experiences. DMT cannot change you...you may choose to change your views because you will see some stuff that ina a million years you could never explain but thats because you have a broader view of the world and thats experience having an effect on your life.

Many ayahuasca churches are christian and base their sessions around it...i mean those people believe their faith regardless of dmt use. I think many of us dont follow religions cuz they havent shown us one shredd of proof or one real spiritual experiences, i myslef have tried. DMT you can see, taste, hear, smell, and feel. Actually, dmt altho may not having a positive on religion(imo cuz its bs, sorry i respect yur faith but) it does help people belive in something. strassman said in his book you can be an atheist til youve had a .4mg/kg dose then after that you cant help but believe theres somethin out there. More of a cure for atheism tho.
 
on a funny note...challenge your faith by smoking dmt. Like a heavyweight fight ...DMT vs. JESUS, this saturday in crakkbaks room, Can crackbakks faith stand up against the head expanding power of the greatest pschedelic of all time. Its our Lord and saviour versus the psychedelic sledgehammer! Let's get ready to rumble!
 
crakkbakk said:
Let me say that I have extensive experience with all sorts of hallucenogens and their personal experiences, ranging from the complete destruction of mind from psilosybin mushrooms to the most deep introspective experience of 2c-e and to the utter..mind fuck? of salvia divinorum. Hallucenogens do not scare me. I have tripped many, many times on many drugs and many levels of dosing on them.

Not once has a hallucenogenic drug torn me from my faith in Christ. Even pulled apart. Nothing. From a spiritual standpoint, hallucenogens have simply reaffirmed my faith. Not necessarily strengthened it, never weakening it, just reaffirming.
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Go for it! Get a few big hits... report your findings. Tell us about your thoughts on Jesus after a few DMT blast offs...
 
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