Science paper Research progress on the antitumor effects of harmine

Research progress on the antitumor effects of harmine
DOI

Why is it saying P. harmala has harmine as main alkaloid? How come B. caapi doesn`t show up anywhere in this? A bit fishy.

Not contesting the potential anti-cancer as it`s a simple review so it works more like an index to read back to the citations for actual useful data and understanding the claim.

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

Why is it saying P. harmala has harmine as main alkaloid?

Maybe because it might be the case if we take in account all parts of the plant ? Roots, second most alkaloids containing part of the plant, contain about 2% harmine but almost no harmaline, so maybe if we add seeds' harmine and roots' harmine, the total harmine amount in the whole plant is higher than harmaline. Assumption.

Seeds and roots contained the highest levels of alkaloids with low levels in stems and leaves, and absence in flowers. Harmine and harmaline accumulated in dry seeds at 4.3% and 5.6% (w/w), respectively, harmalol at 0.6%, and tetrahydroharmine at 0.1% (w/w). Roots contained harmine and harmol with 2.0% and 1.4% (w/w), respectively.

How come B. caapi doesn`t show up anywhere in this?

Maybe because the component was first isolated from Peganum harmala ? Or maybe because it's currently the known plant with highest harmalas alkaloids concentration, harmine included ? Assumption.

 

[northape]

From the paper: "As a main active ingredient in traditional Chinese herbal medicines, harmine possesses excellent antitumor activity and can inhibit tumor proliferation, invasion, and migration through various pathways."

So it's a Chinese study focused on harmine. Just a modern approach to science with high specialization and no holistic view in sight.
Researches need to adapt to norms of their university and international community to get funding.

 

[Ruffles]

Maybe because it might be the case if we take in account all parts of the plant ?

Great point. However, common modern usage of P. harmala are its seeds, though I am not sure of Chinese herbarium resourcing. Needs proper detailing or could have just listed plants generically.

Maybe because the component was first isolated from Peganum harmala ? Or maybe because it's currently the known plant with highest harmalas alkaloids concentration, harmine included ? Assumption.

Ah, that can't be so. It's a review paper, they didn't isolate anything other than quotes from other papers. Plus, most of the cited experimental works ordered from Sigma-Aldritch, so it doesn't really matter where it came from. And I am not sure about your second statement, it needs clarification just like you did, it depends on which harmala and what part of which plant is used .

So it's a Chinese study focused on harmine. Just a modern approach to science with high specialization and no holistic view in sight.
Researches need to adapt to norms of their university and international community to get funding.

I am bothered about the exceptional claim in the title (clickbaiting or marketing for funding) and the lack of rigor in the text.
I want harmine to be 100% anti-tumor anti-cancer brain tonic. One more reason to consume it.
Care to explain what you mean by high specialization and no holistic view in sight?
Some of the cited papers have some solid in vitro experimentation, in limited systems for sure, but perhaps pieces of a larger mechanism showing a possible health benefit of harmine.

 

[blig-blug]

the exceptional claim in the title

It's not such, do a quick Google Scholar search for "harmine". It does have notable antitumoral activity, that's well established by now. The problem is that it's not well absorbed and it's not well tolerated at effective doses. Currently there's a lot of research on synthetic harmine derivatives for cancer treatment.

How come B. caapi doesn`t show up anywhere in this

Because this is just a review from the perspective of how it would apply to TCM, where they only know and use P. harmala. Take a look at this review instead, it's more comprehensive and easier to understand: Anti-tumor potential of Harmine and its derivatives: recent trends and advancements - Discover Oncology

 

[Ruffles]

I wouldn't put it as a well established anti-tumor agent. At best there are people trying to get it to that status from what is now at "preclinical models" with a "high potential to be developed" (abstract of the review you indicated).

I don't think the experimental papers are aiming at this, most are simply exploratory.

 

[blig-blug]

The anti-tumor effects are well established. To have anti-tumor effects and to be an effective clinical agent are two different things. No one is arguing for the second, and in fact it's clear that it's not the case.

 

[Ruffles]

I don't share the view that inhibiting in vitro grown cell lines makes it "well established anti-tumor", unless we specify that limitation. From that to xenografts and other animal models and forwards there is a long long way to go. Therefore, there is no reason to mention therapeutics.

Now, the review you indicated has the exact same problem as the one I linked to and is "subtly" doing what you said no one is doing: figure 1 has harmine in the center pointing to several human organs full of cancer and big Xs float about. Yeah sure, figure description disclaims it as potential.

I see a lack of scientific rigor in the reviews, as argued before, more likely for the sake of academic click baitiing which is too common.

 

[blig-blug]

I don't share the view that inhibiting in vitro grown cell lines makes it "well established anti-tumor", unless we specify that limitation

Let's specify that limitation then I don't have any particular horse here. It has been found to exhibit different anti-tumor properties in vitro and inhibited tumor growth in mouse models. That's it. I don't share the view that "anti tumor effects" must mean universal anti-tumor effects or imply any kind of practical application. But we can call it "potential anti-tumor effects" if you prefer.

xenografts

There have already studies using xenografts.

If we are going to be strict and literal, in the title of the original review there's absolutely no exceptional claims: it literally only claims to be about "research progress on the anti-tumor effects of harmine", and it fulfills its claim (maybe not particularly well). The progress itself could have turned out to be none and the effects zero.

figure 1 has harmine in the center pointing to several human organs full of cancer and big Xs float about. Yeah sure, figure description disclaims it as potential.

Yes, I don't disagree that the reviews seem to be trying to hype it up in humans. While it's actually pretty clear that harmine is unlikely to ever have such use: they have established what they consider the "tolerable dose" to be <2.7mg/kg and that's too low. Maybe one of its synthetic derivatives.

I don't think we disagree in substance but in words. It's fine, maybe I'm using them wrong.

 

[Ruffles]

Yep, I am really trying to raise an issue with the wording in the reviews. I have zero issues with the assay papers, and I do not consider their results to be invalid, just limited to those models.

Like some of the usual mixups of harmalas that inevitably occur when you try to draw a straight line from a work using a plant extract to one using a pure compound. Too common.

 

[northape]

I was born half a year after the Chernobyl disaster, so I was in my mom's belly at the moment of the catastrophe. No one knew for weeks what had happened, and we all lived ordinary lives. Ukrainians like to cry about Chernobyl, but it was Belarus that suffered the most because of the northern winds. I think Sweden rang the alarm first. It's ironic, given where I live now. So, I have always been very aware of cancer and have had a few near ones die from it.

I feel that Peganum harmala has made the biggest impact on my health. Before it, I suffered from a number of ailments, including high blood pressure and strange issues throughout my body. This medicine cleaned it all, giving me more vitality and vigor. It's comical at this point that rue is considered a health hazard in my country and banned in a number of places.

Sadly, my favorite Iranian seeds are gone from the European market due to the war. I will still work with this medicine, though. Beyond its psychedelic effects, harmala is the healthiest medicine available to humans. It is a blessing through and through.

 

[Ruffles]

Thanks for sharing that northape!

 

[blig-blug]

Yep, I am really trying to raise an issue with the wording in the reviews.

I hadn't noticed it that much before you pointed it out, but I agree. And you're also right that the graphics are particularly misleading.

@northape very interesting and it's a shame you can't find those seeds anymore. This year I haven't been able to go to one of the areas here where they grow, I must eventually do it. They were purposefully brought here by the Arabs as a medicinal plant.

 

[northape]

I hadn't noticed it that much before you pointed it out, but I agree. And you're also right that the graphics are particularly misleading.

@northape very interesting and it's a shame you can't find those seeds anymore. This year I haven't been able to go to one of the areas here where they grow, I must eventually do it.

Try to do it if you get a chance. I'd extensively work with rue if it grew here. I used this plant for years to cope with our northern climate.

They were purposefully brought here by the Arabs as a medicinal plant.

And before that, Zoroastrian people held rue in high regard. Most likely, Egyptians did the same. People and cultures change but rue remains. It's our Eurasian caapi counterpart. Regrettable that many think of it as a cheaper caapi substitute, when it's a master plant in its own right.