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Rue tea potency/efficiency of extraction

T

Traged

Esteemed member
Hello friend,

quick question. When doing rue tea extract, what would be approx. efficiency? Lets say I boil 2 grams of crushed seeds for 1 hour. Would it be comparable to eating 2 grams of crushed seeds?

Thank you
 
It partly depends on whether you're simply aiming for MAO inhibition, or if you're interested in experiencing the power of the seeds themselves.

In the case of the latter, what I've done before is brew 3g of powdered, raw rue seed like drip-filter coffee, along with 120mg ascorbic acid [mixed into the rue powder] using ca.250mL boiling hot water. With a body mass of around 65kg, this produced a powerful plant teacher type of experience. 2g of seeds brewed this way would be milder, possibly too mild, but it might suffice for MAOI purposes. There's always a certain amount of fine-tuning of the dose to find one's personal sweet spot, and there can be a degree of variation in potency between different batches of seeds, so one can't get too hung up on the decimal places dosewise.

Crushed seeds would probably require simmering, but not for a whole hour. Better would be to do two or three short brews, with a half or a third of the final intended volume of water each time. Multiple pulls increase extraction efficiency, and a final extra simmer or rinse can make up for evaporative losses.

I think brewing it this way is actually stronger than eating the corresponding amount of seeds, since all of the alkaloids are delivered at once, whereas crushed seeds would take a while to 'brew' in one's stomach. The disadvantage of the brew is the 'wet dog' flavour on top of the strong bitterness - a generous blob of high quality honey goes a long way in improving palatability here. The honey also complements the ascorbic acid.
 
I am looking to replace 3g of rues seeds in shroomhuasca. I have a theory it will be easier on the stomach. (also I plan to lower dose to 2.5 at the same time).

So basically I am more interested in MAO inhibition in this case, but I am interested in everything you have to tell. What are the differences between crushed seeds and tea?
 
Traged said:
What are the differences between crushed seeds and tea?
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I don't eat full doses of seeds, maybe somebody else can highlight that distinction - but my comment on the pharmacodynamics of it still stands:
Transform said:
I think brewing it this way is actually stronger than eating the corresponding amount of seeds, since all of the alkaloids are delivered at once, whereas crushed seeds would take a while to 'brew' in one's stomach.
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Eat the seeds if you want to experience the fat-soluble rue components as well, I suppose.

Psilohuasca using rue tea definitely works, one might add :LOL: You will likely notice the fingerprints of the harmalas on the experience one way or another.
 
Refining Psilohuasca is kind of my aim here. But might as well eventually do some rue tea later on... Thank you for your help <3
 
Hi Traged,

yes making rue tea is quite effective. I am sure it will be better than eating crushed seeds and it might hit faster and stronger as the actives are already extracted.
My suggestion for making the tea is to not use any acid and to keep it dilute.
 
Sakkadelic said:
Hi Traged,

yes making rue tea is quite effective. I am sure it will be better than eating crushed seeds and it might hit faster and stronger as the actives are already extracted.
My suggestion for making the tea is to not use any acid and to keep it dilute.
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I definitely wouldn't use any vinegar/acetic acid, but ascorbic IME is surprisingly OK, especially in combination with a nice blob of honey, max acid level is as stated, 120mg/3g seeds/250mL water - and largely because I'm using hard water.
 
Traged said:
what's the hard water relationship here? (water over here is great but hard AF)
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Hard water tends to have a higher pH, so extraction efficiency will be increased by adding a dash of (weak, non-volatile, nutritional) acid.

Does your water deposit scale when boiled? That's temporary hardness. Hardness that remains in solution after boiling is known as permanent hardness and has far less of a relationship with higher pH.
 
In my experience too, tea works much better than eating whole/crushed seeds. I did a comparative test during 2 weeks alternating tea and crushed seeds in gel caps, with same batch and amount of seeds for each method. It turned out tea was much more potent, which seems to contradict things I have read here and there on the subject saying eating seeds is stronger than tea. Not to mention eating the seeds has a heavier feeling on the stomach. I usually (hard) boil whole seeds with some lemon juice (hard water too here) for about 45mn, starting with 50cl water which I reduce until there is almost no water left. I poor and filter the remaining liquid then I pour some cold water over filtered seeds to dilute and get the desired amount of brew - I usually make 10-15cl tea that I drink (cold) in 2-3 sips. I don't crush seeds for tea purpose. I didn't feel a noticeable difference in effects with crushed versus whole seeds except crushed/powdered is a mess to filter and results in a more cloudy brew, with maybe more unwanted organic material in it. Alkaloids we are looking for are located in seeds integument anyway. By reading the forum you can find different ways to prepare the decoction, try them, choose one. Take over medicine. Keep the seeds ingestion method as a fallback if you definitely can't bear the rue tea taste, other than that I don't think there is any advantage eating the seeds. Maybe compare to have your own point of view, relying on your own experience.

Peace
 
Transform said:
Does your water deposit scale when boiled? That's temporary hardness. Hardness that remains in solution after boiling is known as permanent hardness and has far less of a relationship with higher pH.
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Yeah, I don't even have to boil it. My glass I drink clean water from is getting build up. Every kettle gets a lot of it here. So guess I should use acid for rue brew :)

I was thinking today, what difference would make changing PH of water when making tea? like green tea an so on...
 
Traged said:
I was thinking today, what difference would make changing PH of water when making tea? like green tea an so on...
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I'd be reluctant to fiddle around with my general potable water, chemically, too much. Some people do use RO (reverse osmosis) water softening machines, though. Blending the resulting deionised water with the untreated water supply would permit adjustment of the water hardness to more or less any desired value.
 
I was thinking few drops of lemon juice per cup :) or something like that, just for a heck of it. Just to see if it would affect the taste.
 
Not to derail your thread or anything but did want to ask about the technique of making a very potent b(rue) then boiling until it's an extractable resin from the pot. I've heard in this way one can take a half of a pea or pea which loosely equals 3g.

I'm also wondering about the host of benefits as outlined here (Pharmacological and therapeutic effects of Peganum harmala and its main alkaloids - PMC) ((link function not working on chrome for android)) being harmed through methods of other than raw seeds or seed powder.

Soma frees one from their coma. Don't mind if I rue. Ha. But seriously, I think the 40 days of rue to cure all ails should probably be the whole seeds. Tea must alter some of its alkaloids.

With that said I have enjoyed tea greatly but am still into swallowing the powder for perceived benefits lost in heating.
 
^ Yeah i've made some Rue resin a few times, i just evaporated a dose of brew in a dish and when completely dry i scraped it all up. I didn't get to experiment much with it at the time but it definitely worked lol. The resin is like a yellowish brown color and the resin resembles like taffy or something. I think it can be a good way to go and is worth trying, but mainly i just stick to encapsulated seed powder, works fine for me. The only thing i think that sucks about the resin thing is having to wait for it to be evaporated and then you gotta scrape it up and plus some alkaloids may be lost along the way, so by far the whole seed powder is best for true full spectrum, but the resin is rather nice.
 
There's also the resin that can be made from rue tincture (as detailed by, e.g. @starway7 or one of their incarnations), which doesn't involve heating. Following that up with a CWE on the seeds could afford one a further extract on evaporation. Maybe go the whole hog, and before evaporation of the two liquid extracts, incinerate the spent seeds down to a white ash and dump it into the combined extracts. This would be more of a spagyric process, especially if you include the naked, by moonlight, bit :LOL:Anyhow, clothed or not, you could evaporate that concoction down to a righteous resin.
 
Transform said:
There's also the resin that can be made from rue tincture (as detailed by, e.g. @starway7 or one of their incarnations), which doesn't involve heating. Following that up with a CWE on the seeds could afford one a further extract on evaporation. Maybe go the whole hog, and before evaporation of the two liquid extracts, incinerate the spent seeds down to a white ash and dump it into the combined extracts. This would be more of a spagyric process, especially if you include the naked, by moonlight, bit :LOL:Anyhow, clothed or not, you could evaporate that concoction down to a righteous resin.
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Well. I learned a new word. We danced around a fire naked in a pagan (or alchemical) ritual one night. Next day, the neighbors said, "I don't know what you were wearing last night, but it needed ironing."

Anyway, when I smoke Rue I smoke the resin. It's easy peasy and it's worlds better than the raw seed. The raw seed it pretty "woody" to smoke.
Yeah, on the "to do" list is to precipitate the alkaloids.
 
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