Salt Manske question

[eyedontknow]

Let's say there were two samples of 5grams each THH harmalas being converted to salt form, one having 10% salt solution and the other having 20% (20g/200ml solution vs 40g/ 200ml solution).
Would the higher concentration solution have twice the excess salt contamination or does only a certain amount of salt bind to the harmala molecules? The solution is poured through a coffee filter so there's no evaporation of the solution with the final salted product. Just trying to gauge dosing quantities.
Thank-you

 

[Sakkadelic]

I am not sure I understand well what you are asking about but if it is about salt contamination in final product then yes a more concentrated salt solution will result in more salt contamination. So it is best to remove as much as possible of the water before drying the harmalas. Something like vacuum pump filtration would be great. I use a more kitchen friendly technique, I place the filter with the harmalas inside between paper towels and press gently, I keep changing the paper towels until no more water comes out, you can then place between paper towels with a light flat weight on top and leave for some time.

What happens during manske is that harmala ions and salt ions are all soluble in hot water, as the solution cools down and solubility of the ions drop, they start competing for the solvent. Eventually the bigger and less soluble harmalas are forced to bind to the Cl ions from the salt and crash out.

 

[eyedontknow]

I am not sure I understand well what you are asking about but if it is about salt contamination in final product then yes a more concentrated salt solution will result in more salt contamination. So it is best to remove as much as possible of the water before drying the harmalas. Something like vacuum pump filtration would be great. I use a more kitchen friendly technique, I place the filter with the harmalas inside between paper towels and press gently, I keep changing the paper towels until no more water comes out, you can then place between paper towels with a light flat weight on top and leave for some time.

What happens during manske is that harmala ions and salt ions are all soluble in hot water, as the solution cools down and solubility of the ions drop, they start competing for the solvent. Eventually the bigger and less soluble harmalas are forced to bind to the Cl ions from the salt and crash out.

Yes, sorry that was a little unclear. I was just wondering if all variables being equal, would the solution with a higher salt concentration result in an end product with higher salt contamination in the end product. Or would there be a 'saturation' point met and then any additional salt would remain in solution. Thats a good idea with the drying out of the harmalas in the filter using paper towels to remove some excess salt. Thanks!

 

[Sakkadelic]

The salt(NaCl) is gonna remain in solution unless the solution was saturated or very concentrated when hot. If you remove the water as much as you can before drying you don't need to worry much about salt contamination

For dosing you have to take into account the different molecular weights of the freebase and corresponding HCl salt. Harmala.HCl salt is heavier so you need to increase the dose by the factor below.

Harmine.HCl 248.71 g/mol
Harmine 212.25 g/mol
Ratio: 1.178

Harmaline.HCl 214.27 g/mol
Harmaline 250.72 g/mol
Ratio: 1.17