Salts<->freebase calculator

[Infundibulum]

Hi all,

Ever had to calculate how much freebase a given alkaloid salt equals to? Or how much of a salt a freebase should make? Then look no further! Please find attached a simple excel calculator that easily converts the between salts and freebases for the celebrity alkaloids and their salts around here,

Cheers,
Infun

 

[Rivea]

That's a nice spreadsheet tool there Infundbulum. Thanks for posting it.

 

[VIII]

Thanks for the tool, but do you mind re-attaching? Looks like it got lost, maybe with the updated forum.

Edit: Can download the file fine on Firefox, forum glitch, apologies for the unnecessary post. Looks like the shifting caused the filename to be shifted out of sight in Chrome browser.

 

[Infundibulum]

you're right about the shifting to the left, really odd.

But I can download the files with ease, so I do not see the problem. You need to click on the " Freebase - salt calculations.xls" or "Freebase percentage calculator.xls" files (on the very bottom of the original post in the corresponding threads)

 

[quetzalcoatl42]

thank you very much !

 

[blue.magic]

How the masses of salts are actually calculated?

I tried it on paper using molar masses of say freebase DMT and respective acids, but got different numbers than from the Excel calculator.

DMT - 188.269 g/mol
fumaric acid - 116.07 g/mol

100 mg of DMT is 0.1 / 188.269 = 0.00053115 moles
0.00053115 moles of fumaric acid is 0.00053115 * 116.07 = 0.0616 grams = 61.65 mg

then DMT fumarate should weigh something like 100 mg + 61.6 mg = 161.mg

...but the calculator says 130.826 mg, like if there are 2 molecules of DMT per one molecule of fumaric acid.

However, I ran into same problem with other salts too. It's usually off by 10% or so. Should I subtract a hydrogen or something?

 

[Loveall]

How the masses of salts are actually calculated?

I tried it on paper using molar masses of say freebase DMT and respective acids, but got different numbers than from the Excel calculator.

DMT - 188.269 g/mol
fumaric acid - 116.07 g/mol

100 mg of DMT is 0.1 / 188.269 = 0.00053115 moles
0.00053115 moles of fumaric acid is 0.00053115 * 116.07 = 0.0616 grams = 61.65 mg

then DMT fumarate should weigh something like 100 mg + 61.6 mg = 161.mg

...but the calculator says 130.826 mg, like if there are 2 molecules of DMT per one molecule of fumaric acid.

However, I ran into same problem with other salts too. It's usually off by 10% or so. Should I subtract a hydrogen or something?

From the DMT handbook fumaric acid section:

I think the picture will help account for number of molecules :thumb_up: .

 

[blue.magic]

I think the picture will help account for number of molecules :thumb_up: .

Okay I see. Interestingly, that configuration allows chain of DMT-fumarate-DMT-fumarate-... molecules making more 1:1 than 2:1 DMT:fumarate ratio. But that seemingly does not happen, probably has something to do with the DMT-fumarate-DMT configuration being more stable as is, not liking further chaining.

But let's calcutate weight of DMT acetate:

20 mg of DMT freebase is 0.02 [g] / 188.269 [g/mol] = 1.0623E-4 moles
1.0623E-4 moles of acetic acid is 1.0623E-4 [mol] * 60.05 [g/mol] = 0.06379 [g] = 6.3791 [mg]

DMT acetate from 20 mg DMT freebase weighs 20 [mg] + 6.379 [mg] = 26.379 [mg]

Okay now it matches the calculator exactly

 

[_Trip_]

Awesome spread sheet Infundibulum.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I've updated the spreadsheet to include conversion for the three possible mescaline citrates, attached.

 

[_Trip_]

Thanks downwardsfromzero, good stuff.

 

[Hailstorm]

Mixing DMT with fumaric acid will not result in 100% DMT hemifumarate (two DMT molecules attached to one molecule of fumaric acid, i.e. neutral salt).

Depending on the technique (dripping FASA into DMT vs. dripping DMT into FASA vs. just mixing the two solutions) a number of fumaric acid molecules only manage to find 1 DMT molecule to attach to, forming DMT hydrogenfumarate (acid salt). A calculation that assumes 2 DMT per 1 fumaric acid may or may not end up correct.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Mixing DMT with fumaric acid will not result in 100% DMT hemifumarate (two DMT molecules attached to one molecule of fumaric acid, i.e. neutral salt).

Depending on the technique (dripping FASA into DMT vs. dripping DMT into FASA vs. just mixing the two solutions) a number of fumaric acid molecules only manage to find 1 DMT molecule to attach to, forming DMT hydrogenfumarate (acid salt). A calculation that assumes 2 DMT per 1 fumaric acid may or may not end up correct.

It's pretty easy to edit the spreadsheet to add a line for calculating DMT bifumarate yield, so be my guest.

 

[orchidist]

I got a little bored today and made an HTML/Javascript version of this calculator. Also added a few more salts to the mix. Adding new alks or acids will be pretty easy, just need a name, molar mass, and for the acids, how many protons it has to give up.

The repository is on github here for anyone who may be interested in reviewing the code before running it. Also, definitely check my math, if there's anything wrong with the calculations, I will fix it ASAP.

Also totally happy to take feature requests and code submissions, whether it be on this calculator or possible new ones.

In order to run it, all that's needed is to download the repository and open the html-calculators/salt-converter.html file.

I figured since not everyone has a spreadsheet application installed, and not all applications support the same set of features, a browser based calculator would almost certainly guarantee it works anyone who wants it.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

What a treat!
Many thanks for putting this one together!

 

[downwardsfromzero]

This one is useful enough to be stickied. Not sure why it wasn't til now!