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Salvinorin mysteries, temperature & ethanol

ms_manic_minxx

ms_manic_minxx

Esteemed member
OG Pioneer
Does anyone know if the solubility of salvinorin A changes in different temperatures of ethanol?

I have no idea where someone originally told me to tincture my salvia with warm ethanol, but I've always done it that way and have had great success with making tinctures.

I've also encountered some people saying salvinorin is only 8% soluble in ethanol and making tinctures effectively doesn't work. This made me wonder if temperature of ethanol really does impact yield?

I tincture fresh leaf, and am suspicious there must exist other heat-sensitive compounds that modulate the experience and contribute to an entourage effect with salvinorin A. The best analogy I have for fresh leaf concentrate taken sublingually vs. 20x extract smoked is like oral caapi vs. smoked DMT. Fresh leaf is slow, intelligible, gentle, colorful, and as heat is applied, the experience becomes more warp-speed, dysphoric, and challenging to understand.

I half-cooked some fresh leaf concentrate in some candy making experiments and the result was a weird, drawn out experience halfway between the euphoria of quidding and the dysphoria of smoking. This is what tipped me off to heat potentially being a factor.

I have never yet made tincture with dried leaf - only fresh. I am curious to see how it would compare. I prefer quidding fresh leaf to dried leaf. I need considerably more dried leaf gram for gram when quidding, dried is less colorful, warps my sense of space more and makes my body feel hot.

I know years ago there were Nexians who wondered if it was possible to make a huasca-type salvia to prevent it being broken down in the stomach. My line of thought following that was if not oral, what about sublingual? The largest dose of sublingual fresh leaf concentrate that I took had about 20 minutes until peaking, 45 minutes of peaking with rapid closed eye visuals, and then a two hour afterglow. I have no means of measuring potentcy, and have no idea if potency of salvia plants is pretty standard, or subject to extreme variance like datura.

I would love to hear if anyone has conducted similar experiments.
 
Yes, as ice cold alcohol can be used to wash salvinorin-a crystals extracted with selective ice cold acetone. The same alcohol when warm wouldn't wash off the crystals, it would take them into solution, although not completely efficiently.
 
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I always quid fresh leaves with a small amount of alcohol because it increases potency and reduces waste. Alcohol dilates salivary glands—which I remember reading ~10 years ago in a quidding guide on Reddit—but it also has an effect on KOR with releasing dynorphins. Taking a shot of alcohol with a strong quid really potentiates things in an interesting way for me. It almost feels like a secret discovery, like how nicotine has a strong synergy with kava.

Salvinorin A is metabolized by CES1, which is also present in saliva. However, a strong sublingual dose clearly overwhelms low levels of enzymic activity in the mouth.

Your experiences with fresh S. divinorum align with mine. It's gentle, but you can start to take it farther with continued us. I've gotten OEVs from using a handful of shockingly potent leaves. I also believe lecithin improves bioavailability—like it does for THC—because salvinorin A is lipophilic. But, this could be placebo. I won't really be able to make strong assumptions until I extract some and feel out the baseline potency.
 
salvinorin A is lipophilic
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This is very interesting. My most effective S. absconditiflora tea experience was the one time I mixed it with rue tea and boiled for concentration. The afterglow was heavenly, a priceless well being. Rue seeds are full of oil, as we know. I will commence my experiments soon.
 
dithyramb said:
My most effective S. absconditiflora tea experience was the one time I mixed it with rue tea and boiled for concentration.
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That’s also interesting, because I remember reading that prolonged exposure to low heat caused salvinorin A to convert to salvinorin B.

I’ve been told that—as a terpenoid—it’s pretty stable in extremely acidic environments as well.

Now I’m questioning the accuracy of those statements. I’m not sure enough research has been done.
 
dithyramb said:
What is the source of the heat conversion claim?
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I do not recall the original source—it might have actually been hearsay on Reddit—but I’m glad I looked it up.

It seems to be the opposite. Salvia can convert with heat, but I did not find any definitive data. I’m sure—like with mescaline—it’ll prove to be less sensitive than data implies.

Salvinorin A is likely sensitive to acidity because of ester hydrolysis. This could mean that inhibition of CES1 enzymes won’t make a substantial difference once ingested.

I’ll extract 30g of homegrown leaf soon, establish a baseline through quidding, and then start playing with heat, inhibition, and ingestion.
 
Just an update:

Based on Traveler's recommendation, I have altered my plan:

I will first extract crude salvinorin A onto baking soda—as the crude extraction has been said to be more bioavailable due to how it interacts with mucus in the body—and I will quid a certain dose to establish a baseline.

I will then ingest CBD isolate and establish a baseline for that.

Then I will test CBD as a CES1 inhibitor by ingesting it 30 minutes before taking an enteric (acid resistant) capsule, which should release salvinorin A once it hits my small intestine.

I was able to test the enteric capsule with 400mg of caffeine, which was definitely felt within 40 minutes on a not-so-empty stomach.

This will obviously take some time to prepare, but I'll be back once I have definitive results.
 
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