Seeing behind the curtain

[fink]

Something has been in my mind more and more over the last few months. It struck me finally after some years pondering why my DMT experiences were nothing like what many people report.

I never so far see bright colours after something like 50 experiences. I've not been counting, could be more or less. Roughly 50.

These have ranged from very low dose to quite extreme over dose. Im sure many have been well into breakthrough territory although I sort of dislike the whole categorisation of trip levels. I have experienced unbelievable things as bizarre and profound as many other reports. Entities a plenty, x-dimensional mind melting, conversations with plants in the garden, deletion of existence, brain inspecting mechanical arachnids, you name it.

But never bright colours in any memorable form. Everything has been clear and transparent like polished glass, or dull outlines, or murky and muddy.

I've seen amazing geometry often. Without any real or memorable colours. Fractal perfection but made of perfectly see through glass.

Quite often a horribly confusing, quite brutal and raw dimension where nothing makes any sense, there is no beauty, just extreme complexity and violent, frantic vibrations and movements. Entities that crowd in a claustrophobic manner, waving right in front of my visual anchor point. Chattering and gibberish, to distraction.

All of these things puzzle me and tend to keep me on low doses, threshold, where gentle and welcoming entities play.


Now to the title of the topic. I wonder if the bright colours missing are what make the visuals so often disturbing and unpleasant. It is almost like the transparent fractals are not opaque enough to hide the hidden workings of the immense machine behind the typical DMT beauty. I'm starting to wonder if something in me is missing and that is why I can see the oily, dirty engine room behind the magic.

Can anyone relate? Give advice? Share wisdom?

 

[dragonrider]

Well, i sometimes experience colours fading away, but then eventually they always come back.

Sometimes, when imagery becomes realy complex in geometry, it is like all the computing power of my counsciousness goes into the geometry of those visions, and colours seem to become less bright for a while. Especially when i start to become part of those visions myself, or when distortion of time, like time loops start to happen.

Yes, i think it's mostly when i get stuck in loops, that it sometimes happens. And when i get out of that loop, all the colours start to come back again.

 

[Palmer Eldritch]

I don't necessarily have specific advice, but I will say that many of my own experiences have not closely resembled those I read. I think the experience tends to be quite unique to the individual, but there are general similarities many people experience. For example, I don't normally see entities while on smoked spice (though this has changed somewhat recently), but almost always have some sort of rainbow fractal patterns.

For me, DMT experiences tend to be more about the feelings and the way the mind can perceive at different levels. Yeah the visuals are there, but they almost become secondary to what I consider the trip itself, but the visual aspect seems very front and center to many other reports I read.

I wouldn't necessarily think there's anything wrong or "missing" because you have these experiences.

 

[clearlyone]

Hi fink

You didn’t say anything about setting. I have noticed significant effect on visuals and colors from both surrounds/light level; and time of day. Outdoors in nature on a bright day in the morning will increase color fullness IME. dark indoor settings late in the day tend toward the greys and gloomy, less visual.

Peace

 

[fink]

Thank you all for the responses.

I see all sorts of fantastic, bright and colourful imagery that people create to describe their experiences. I do see those type of patterns but always transparent or dull, matte or monochrome. Most often dark orange of dull red.

Setting, clearlyone, I should have mentioned indeed. Wide variety outdoors and indoors. I've noticed the same differences you mention. However I would say that many of the experiences that confuse me have been of sufficient strength that I no longer have a body much less any awareness of the setting.

Thank you Palmer for the reassuring words there. When I say something is missing, I really cannot think of any other way to describe it. It is as if the visuals are transparent so I can see through them into the dirty, disordered mechanics of the machine behind. I have nothing better to describe it.

Dragon, I guess that being stuck in a loop might be the root of some of the harder journeys. I'm not really sure what that might mean but it sounds about right. Would you tell more about this?


In the end I believe it is that I would really like to see some of that candy land beauty that I see in all the psychedelic art people produce. Just a trip without lessons, without confusion.

I am not ungrateful or disappointed with my DMT jounrey. It has changed my life, helped me in some important ways. Shown me things I could never have imagined. I am very thankful for every single trip.

 

[ShadedSelf]

Most often dark orange of dull red.

This is interesting.

I do feel like there is a connection between the colors I see on DMT and certain blockages that are limiting the free flow of energy up to those colors, if that makes any sense.
And while most experiences are rainbow indeed, Ive found others that do have a specific frequency or color, specially when I close my eyes.
Its hard for me to get past yellow for example, though I have gotten a bit of green at times.

Red and orange are often refered to as the first and second energy centers, those being about sex/survival, and the self in its personal feelings and relationships.

I cant garantee that there is any connection here, but thats the best explanation I have.

 

[fink]

Ah Shaded, this word..blockage. Immediately stood out to me. Thank you. That might be exactly what I need to address. Any direction on that topic would be welcome.

 

[ShadedSelf]

Honestly, not sure, and might depend how much the concept of chakras resonates with you.

A bit of theory:
Energy starts flowing from red and will continue to do so until it get fully blocked, there are seven discrete steps each governig different aspects of the self, blockages can be complete or partial at those steps, and how high this energy flows is where an entity will find itself vibrationally at any given point, so to speak.

This can be anything, lets take a hypothetical socially anxious person as an example, energy is spent trying to predict and control different scenarios, perhaps in an atempt to avoid shame or judment, and given to fear instead, the expression of selfhood then becomes strangled.

Worry, depression, narcissism, anger, addiction... You tell us.

You will find they can manifest in the body in relation to the mind, take note of how certain feelings or experiences are felt in the body.

Once the distortion is known to the mind it can then be accepted by the self.
There is not much else to be done as far as I know.

 

[pantostao]

Very interesting post. I don't usually see bright colors or the candy land beauty as you put it. I particularly like your following explanation, because I feel the same way.

When I say something is missing, I really cannot think of any other way to describe it. It is as if the visuals are transparent so I can see through them into the dirty, disordered mechanics of the machine behind. I have nothing better to describe it.

I'm not in this journey because of the visual aspect of it, but at the same time, It feels like something its missing, sometimes. It can become an "ethical" dilemma: I feel a bit guilty for expecting more out of it, even when I'm usually getting what I need. Am I being too demanding?

I have noticed significant effect on visuals and colors from both surrounds/light level; and time of day. Outdoors in nature on a bright day in the morning will increase color fullness IME. dark indoor settings late in the day tend toward the greys and gloomy, less visual.

This is interesting too. I agree: Most of my journeys are set in a dark indoor, so there's that. When I trip outside during a beautiful day in nature, colors are much more prominent. But either way, I feel like its not all about the setting, even if it makes a huge impact.


Finally, about the chakras ShadedSelf mentioned. I have never put much thought into these ideas, but I've been reading about the matching colors and what blockages they represent, and I have to say that it resonated a lot with what I'm feeling.

Lately I've been seeing cold colors such as blue/green/violet. Is this a diagnosis from Dr. Dimitri? That could mean that I'm not expressing myself freely, and I'm not really connecting with my spirituality in my daily life. That all makes sense, so... let's get to work and clear those blockages.

 

[fink]

Honestly, not sure, and might depend how much the concept of chakras resonates with you.

A bit of theory:
Energy starts flowing from red and will continue to do so until it get fully blocked, there are seven discrete steps each governig different aspects of the self, blockages can be complete or partial at those steps, and how high this energy flows is where an entity will find itself vibrationally at any given point, so to speak.

This can be anything, lets take a hypothetical socially anxious person as an example, energy is spent trying to predict and control different scenarios, perhaps in an atempt to avoid shame or judment, and given to fear instead, the expression of selfhood then becomes strangled.

Worry, depression, narcissism, anger, addiction... You tell us.

You will find they can manifest in the body in relation to the mind, take note of how certain feelings or experiences are felt in the body.

Once the distortion is known to the mind it can then be accepted by the self.
There is not much else to be done as far as I know.

I have a host of normal human worries, some periods of depression. Very little anger left, although some I am sure. Narcissism I dont think at all anymore. Addictions, all conquered most of the time.

Perhaps a few aging health issues that I ignore, but that is life for most people.


If anything my biggest issue is how upset and disillusioned I feel with how humanity is behaving. I feel like it's a hopeless task and my only recourse is to protect my little bubble with those I love inside it.

 

[fink]

[Snip] Am I being too demanding?[/Snip]

I know what you mean about feeling demanding. Also very keen to learn and understand blockages and loops as both these things seems to stick out to me as true about myself.


Very happy to work on myself here. I think I am more interested in the concept that behind the beauty of DMT could be a dirty, industrial looking machine. Like the colours are a front to cover the deeper workings.

 

[ShadedSelf]

I have a host of normal human worries, some periods of depression. Very little anger left, although some I am sure. Narcissism I dont think at all anymore. Addictions, all conquered most of the time.

So you feel like its all, at minimum, within acceptable limits.

Perhaps a few aging health issues that I ignore, but that is life for most people.

Im a bit lost here, not sure how the latter part of this sentence justifies the former.
Either way, sounds like you are okay with ignoring them?

If anything my biggest issue is how upset and disillusioned I feel with how humanity is behaving. I feel like it's a hopeless task and my only recourse is to protect my little bubble with those I love inside it.

That could be part of it then.


Does it feel like any of this stuff is worth addressing?

 

[fink]

So you feel like its all, at minimum, within acceptable limits.

Psychologically well within acceptable limits. Self aware, happy with who I am, able to acknowledge my bad behaviours and correct them for the future. Generally good to people and lifeforms around me. Not repressing past trauma as far as I've so far been able to discover. Yeah, definitely within the limits.

Im a bit lost here, not sure how the latter part of this sentence justifies the former.
Either way, sounds like you are okay with ignoring them?

This one has taken me a few days to really consider, hence the slow reply. I think the truth is I am afraid of hospitals and doctors. I believe that if you know you are dying it will come a lot faster than if you can convince yourself it will be ok for a while longer.

This is massively shorthand for the philosophy I'm touching on. Another analogy would be a serious accident. You dont tell the victim that their leg is off and they are bleeding out. You tell them to hold on tight and stay awake. You see what I'm getting at? I've been to the doctors once in the last two decades due to being shot in the hand. I dont trust the free health system and the private one is prohibitively expensive. I come from a long line of stubborn bastards who all lived into their 70s and 80s.

I'm in good shape for my age. Still quick, still strong enough. My job is very active and outdoors. An old spinal injury causes me constant pain since the last 25 years, so ok ignoring that. I have very large pores so am prone to cystic lumps and ingrown hairs now and again. Ok ignoring that too.

Teeth could use some work but we are not rich people and my kids having what they need is a priority over my vanity or comfort. This does bother me a little if I'm honest with myself. I would smile and laugh more if I addressed this. Some blockage there?

That could be part of it then.

Does it feel like any of this stuff is worth addressing?

I've addressed what I think deserves it as honestly as I can and even this admission makes me feel more vulnerable than I'm used to. But I thank you for pushing me on it.

As to the state of the world. It upsets me on a daily basis. So frustrating in so many ways. And the deepest irony of all, I am sure if I was a billionaire I would be just like them and not care about the consequences. This is a huge topic and not helpful to this thread I suppose.

I worry for the next generation. I live in a constant state of mild anxiety that the system will make our lives miserable any time it takes fancy. That my ideals and my sense of freedom and goodness will not be enough to defend me if the iron fist descends. That I will have to dig deep and bring out my heartless, ruthless, logical predatory brain to survive. I am especially sad and frustrated about the global events of the last 3 or 4 years and how easily we the people allowed ourselves to be divided and manipulated.

In any case, this gets very off topic very quickly if I continue. So let's leave it at that. Suffice to say I'm not happy with what we are doing as a species in many ways.

 

[dragonrider]

Dragon, I guess that being stuck in a loop might be the root of some of the harder journeys. I'm not really sure what that might mean but it sounds about right. Would you tell more about this?

Getting stuck in a loop is usually a very intense, overwhelming kind of experience. It used to scare me at first but nowadays i just accept it and let it unfold when it happens.

There is something claustrofobic and frantic about it. It often feels like you are stuck there forever, no matter what you do, and it tends to have moments where things are going realy realy fast and seem to be spinning out of controll.

It usually isn't just a time-loop. It can have other things looping as well, like your own thoughts, or even counsciousness itself, or space.

When it's happening, there is a primal urge to try to make sense of it, but when you try to hold on to something, to find some kind of mental security, that struggle inevitably becomes part of the looping as well.

It's very much like being lost and desperately trying to follow a trail of breadcrumbs, to inevitably always end up in the same spot. Or like trying to find your way out of a complex maze that is constantly warping in such a way that you always end up in the center again.

It is very hard to surrender and just let it happen, but often that is just the easiest way out.

 

[ShadedSelf]

Are you afraid of death?

This is massively shorthand for the philosophy I'm touching on. Another analogy would be a serious accident. You dont tell the victim that their leg is off and they are bleeding out. You tell them to hold on tight and stay awake. You see what I'm getting at?

Yeah, you focus on what helps, whats good or usefull, not on whats technically true but doesnt, you dont have a leg anymore, but that doesnt help you maintain conciousness.
You migh have some health issues, you might be slowly dying, but focusing on that doesnt help with your priorities.

Teeth could use some work but we are not rich people and my kids having what they need is a priority over my vanity or comfort. This does bother me a little if I'm honest with myself. I would smile and laugh more if I addressed this. Some blockage there?

And I definately get the sense that you have priorities, you are just not one of them.
Honestly, I dont know, this is a completely valid and honorable way to live ones life, to sacrifice the self for our loved ones.
Though some do say that martyrdom is indeed a sort or blockage or imbalance.

It might require some introspection, is it to serve your kids? is this the best way to serve them? what would they be learning from you? is it to avoid putting yourself first?... How would you feel if you chose to put yourself first?
And I get that your kids come first, and that is both your honor and your duty, there is also the alternate universe where they enjoy a dad that smiles more often.

Not saying one path is better than the other, both carry sacrifices, and sounds like you are relatively happy with the way things are.

As to the state of the world. It upsets me on a daily basis. So frustrating in so many ways. And the deepest irony of all, I am sure if I was a billionaire I would be just like them and not care about the consequences.

Are you mad at yourself for that?

I worry for the next generation. I live in a constant state of mild anxiety that the system will make our lives miserable any time it takes fancy. That my ideals and my sense of freedom and goodness will not be enough to defend me if the iron fist descends. That I will have to dig deep and bring out my heartless, ruthless, logical predatory brain to survive. I am especially sad and frustrated about the global events of the last 3 or 4 years and how easily we the people allowed ourselves to be divided and manipulated.

What I hear is almost a sense of impending doom. Is that how it feels?

"That I will have to dig deep and bring out my heartless, ruthless, logical predatory brain to survive."
Have you ever found yourself in this situation?

 

[fink]

Dragon, I guess that being stuck in a loop might be the root of some of the harder journeys. I'm not really sure what that might mean but it sounds about right. Would you tell more about this?

Getting stuck in a loop is usually a very intense, overwhelming kind of experience. It used to scare me at first but nowadays i just accept it and let it unfold when it happens.

There is something claustrofobic and frantic about it. It often feels like you are stuck there forever, no matter what you do, and it tends to have moments where things are going realy realy fast and seem to be spinning out of controll.

It usually isn't just a time-loop. It can have other things looping as well, like your own thoughts, or even counsciousness itself, or space.

When it's happening, there is a primal urge to try to make sense of it, but when you try to hold on to something, to find some kind of mental security, that struggle inevitably becomes part of the looping as well.

It's very much like being lost and desperately trying to follow a trail of breadcrumbs, to inevitably always end up in the same spot. Or like trying to find your way out of a complex maze that is constantly warping in such a way that you always end up in the center again.

It is very hard to surrender and just let it happen, but often that is just the easiest way out.

Thank you, this makes me feel less alone. I've managed to breath forward through some of these experiences. But mostly I don't remember even being a human until I'm coming back down.

The insanity is so overwhelming. The space so psyche defeating. I wonder why would i do this to myself willingly.

How do you find the courage to take a full hit after knowing that you might end up there?

 

[fink]

Are you afraid of death?

Of course. I have accepted it and in some ways am already prepared to embrace the solace from this world. But it is the greatest unknown, it would be a clear lie to not accept fear as a part of that event.

Though some do say that martyrdom is indeed a sort or blockage or imbalance.

Martyrdom is not the right word. It is not sacrifice for an ideology or to make a point. It is sacrifice for the selfish motive of genetic dominance. Having offspring as a conscious being is quite literally exchanging everything you have and everything you are for a newer, fresher, healthier model of yourself. It is indeed quite the opposite of martyrdom.

It might require some introspection, is it to serve your kids? is this the best way to serve them? what would they be learning from you? is it to avoid putting yourself first?... How would you feel if you chose to put yourself first?
And I get that your kids come first, and that is your honor and your duty, there is also the alternate universe where they enjoy a dad that smiles more often.

See above answer. Everything I do for my genetic continuum is naturally selfish in motivation. I do smile at my family and laugh. In fact they helped me to remember this behaviour.

Are you mad at yourself for that?

Not at all. I understand the human condition intimately as much that I know we are basically all the same in the majority of cases. The only differences come from circumstance.

What I hear is almost a sense of impending doom. Is that how it feels?

Yes. I'd say that is not how it feels, it's how it unequivocally is. Sooner or later doom is coming. It makes any effort towards future fink's life a waste of time. Only today fink is worth any effort and today fink is getting by acceptably.

"That I will have to dig deep and bring out my heartless, ruthless, logical predatory brain to survive."
Have you ever found yourself in this situation?

Yes. We are all just a few days of food and water away from that realisation.

Any writing of yours not quoted has not been disregarded, simply read and digested without the need for response. Thank you for taking the time and energy to engage me, Shaded.

 

[dragonrider]

Dragon, I guess that being stuck in a loop might be the root of some of the harder journeys. I'm not really sure what that might mean but it sounds about right. Would you tell more about this?

Getting stuck in a loop is usually a very intense, overwhelming kind of experience. It used to scare me at first but nowadays i just accept it and let it unfold when it happens.

There is something claustrofobic and frantic about it. It often feels like you are stuck there forever, no matter what you do, and it tends to have moments where things are going realy realy fast and seem to be spinning out of controll.

It usually isn't just a time-loop. It can have other things looping as well, like your own thoughts, or even counsciousness itself, or space.

When it's happening, there is a primal urge to try to make sense of it, but when you try to hold on to something, to find some kind of mental security, that struggle inevitably becomes part of the looping as well.

It's very much like being lost and desperately trying to follow a trail of breadcrumbs, to inevitably always end up in the same spot. Or like trying to find your way out of a complex maze that is constantly warping in such a way that you always end up in the center again.

It is very hard to surrender and just let it happen, but often that is just the easiest way out.

Thank you, this makes me feel less alone. I've managed to breath forward through some of these experiences. But mostly I don't remember even being a human until I'm coming back down.

The insanity is so overwhelming. The space so psyche defeating. I wonder why would i do this to myself willingly.

How do you find the courage to take a full hit after knowing that you might end up there?

I struggle with pre-flight anxiety as well sometimes. The way for me to overcome this is that i don't take psychedelics very often, and DMT is something i do maybe once or twice a year.
And when i am going to do DMT, i tend to plan ahead. I almost never do it in an impulse. I usually decide to do it a week or even two weeks before the actual moment.

The distance in time makes it easier to decide. I have to answer the question whether or not i want to take DMT and weigh the pro's and cons, the major con being anxiety. Then during the week ahead, i remind myself that i realy want to do it in spite of any (pre-flight) anxiety.

Then when the moment arises, it is easier to shed that anxiety, because at that moment i know very well that i realy want to do it. And as we all know, the only way is through.

It also helps to have someone around. Especially someone who's familiar with DMT.

 

[Voidmatrix]

How do you find the courage to take a full hit after knowing that you might end up there?

I experience preflight anxiety every time (and I've been smoalking some amount almost daily for the past 90 days or so), no matter the dose. Which also hinders certain breakthrough doses. Though, as I've shared before, I also can end up "somewhere else" even on something as low as 10mg, like last weekend. That also adds to anxiety. The funniest part is that it always ends well, or if it's a challenging experience, I'm still glad that I did it and I look back in triumph.

However...

The next time I want to journey, I have to jump through the same hoops again to get me to where I'm going. Sometimes I'll make the decision to journey early in the day while at work for instance, and so the majority of the day is spent in my head going back and forth between whether I should or not. Despite my desire to do so, I seem to come up with reasons why it's a bad idea, all of which are convincing but nevertheless false. That's anxiety in action. This is also an example of a thought loop that doesn't happen within the psychedelic space, but does include the process.

There also seems to be a unique tandem reaction; one of which is from our own mind and we phenomenologically experience, and the second being the body's unique response to the impending journey. In the rare event that I'm mentally completely calm, my body never is, sometimes shaking as I hit whatever device is delivering the sweet sweet spice. I've told myself that, "my body will catch up," because when I'm going, I'm going.

My current frequency is teaching me a lot, and I'm learning to manage the anxiety better and better every time.

Now to the title of the topic. I wonder if the bright colours missing are what make the visuals so often disturbing and unpleasant. It is almost like the transparent fractals are not opaque enough to hide the hidden workings of the immense machine behind the typical DMT beauty. I'm starting to wonder if something in me is missing and that is why I can see the oily, dirty engine room behind the magic.

Can anyone relate? Give advice? Share wisdom?

There's nothing wrong with you. DMT is just weird. It may be just where you are now. From my experience, DMT shows one new novel things over time. For me, it's only getting weirder. :twisted: keep at it (which I'm sure you will), and I won't be surprised if you start getting more of what you may be expecting.

Speaking of which, considering that DMT is a jester, it may be defying your expectations on purpose

One love

 

[dragonrider]

How do you find the courage to take a full hit after knowing that you might end up there?

I experience preflight anxiety every time (and I've been smoalking some amount almost daily for the past 90 days or so), no matter the dose. Which also hinders certain breakthrough doses. Though, as I've shared before, I also can end up "somewhere else" even on something as low as 10mg, like last weekend. That also adds to anxiety. The funniest part is that it always ends well, or if it's a challenging experience, I'm still glad that I did it and I look back in triumph.

However...

The next time I want to journey, I have to jump through the same hoops again to get me to where I'm going. Sometimes I'll make the decision to journey early in the day while at work for instance, and so the majority of the day is spent in my head going back and forth between whether I should or not. Despite my desire to do so, I seem to come up with reasons why it's a bad idea, all of which are convincing but nevertheless false. That's anxiety in action. This is also an example of a thought loop that doesn't happen within the psychedelic space, but does include the process.

There also seems to be a unique tandem reaction; one of which is from our own mind and we phenomenologically experience, and the second being the body's unique response to the impending journey. In the rare event that I'm mentally completely calm, my body never is, sometimes shaking as I hit whatever device is delivering the sweet sweet spice. I've told myself that, "my body will catch up," because when I'm going, I'm going.

My current frequency is teaching me a lot, and I'm learning to manage the anxiety better and better every time.

Now to the title of the topic. I wonder if the bright colours missing are what make the visuals so often disturbing and unpleasant. It is almost like the transparent fractals are not opaque enough to hide the hidden workings of the immense machine behind the typical DMT beauty. I'm starting to wonder if something in me is missing and that is why I can see the oily, dirty engine room behind the magic.

Can anyone relate? Give advice? Share wisdom?

There's nothing wrong with you. DMT is just weird. It may be just where you are now. From my experience, DMT shows one new novel things over time. For me, it's only getting weirder. :twisted: keep at it (which I'm sure you will), and I won't be surprised if you start getting more of what you may be expecting.

Speaking of which, considering that DMT is a jester, it may be defying your expectations on purpose

One love

90 days!!!:lol: You are a hero my friend. Amazing.