Dimitri-Trance
Rising Star
Can one get a "heat stroke" from ingesting/smoking spice?
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Serotonin Syndrome?
- Thread starter Dimitri-Trance
- Start date
expanding
Rising Star
If your refering to feeling very hot while smoking spice i get this alot. I dont think your body temperature changes i think its just your brain getting abit confused but iv never tested that. Never had problems from it though, anyway i did lots of searchs regarding this when i started smoking, and i havnt heard of any problems from it.
I dont get it nearly as strongly anymore. Not sure if iv adjusted to it or if it just happens less with oxidized spice. But i still feel hot when smoking and often cold after coming down fairly regularly.
I dont get it nearly as strongly anymore. Not sure if iv adjusted to it or if it just happens less with oxidized spice. But i still feel hot when smoking and often cold after coming down fairly regularly.
Dimitri-Trance
Rising Star
I ask because about 8 months ago swim had a heat stroke on mushrooms. About 3 days ago swim had another, this time on acid (600ug). Altho spice (10-15mg) was vaped at the 3-4 hour lsd peak.
I think swims temperature went up to 104. Swim felt at first hot and sweaty. Then he became literally delirious!! Swim woke up of the ground and realized that this is happening again. Swim had to deal with it for about 2 more hours. Swim really tough he was going to die.
Ive recently did some research on "Heat Strokes" and "Serotonin Syndrome" and realized that this is what had happened to him. Swim could have got into a coma or even death! (can this really happen...I never heard of anybody dying of any psychedelic)
So...can psychedelics cause heat strokes? What if they are combined (ex.Lsd ad Dmt)?
Or does it depend on the persons psychical health?
Swim does not usually drink enough water. On average your suppose to drink a gallon of water a day. Swim dosent even drink a bottle of water a day, until now. (Lesson learned!
)
This has scared swim from taking any psychedelics ever again. I need some tips to help him?
Anybody???:?
Also can DMT alone cause serotonin syndrome? OR Psilocybin Mushrooms?
I think swims temperature went up to 104. Swim felt at first hot and sweaty. Then he became literally delirious!! Swim woke up of the ground and realized that this is happening again. Swim had to deal with it for about 2 more hours. Swim really tough he was going to die.
Ive recently did some research on "Heat Strokes" and "Serotonin Syndrome" and realized that this is what had happened to him. Swim could have got into a coma or even death! (can this really happen...I never heard of anybody dying of any psychedelic)
So...can psychedelics cause heat strokes? What if they are combined (ex.Lsd ad Dmt)?
Or does it depend on the persons psychical health?
Swim does not usually drink enough water. On average your suppose to drink a gallon of water a day. Swim dosent even drink a bottle of water a day, until now. (Lesson learned!
)This has scared swim from taking any psychedelics ever again. I need some tips to help him?
Anybody???:?
Also can DMT alone cause serotonin syndrome? OR Psilocybin Mushrooms?
You never checked it?
I know that ayahuasca and also just harmalas can cause you to sweat profusely, usually when there is something to purge. I don't know about the delirious part, although it may be the crap surfacing...
Dimitri-Trance
Rising Star
Dagger said:
No. I just assumed.
delta-9
Rising Star
This is a very interesting topic, I am not a pharmacologist but I understand that there are many drugs which can potentially cause serotonin syndrome. However it occurs most commonly when combinations of serotonin releasers/ agonists. Although DMT is certainly a potent serotonin agonist, when smoked or consumed without an MAOI, it is rapidly metabolised and I question whether or not serotonin concentration would reach a high enough level to be considered dangerous.
One example where mild-moderate serotonin syndrome occurs at normal recreational dosages is MDMA, SWIM has experienced dynamic feelings of hot and then cold along with sweating and shivering although this was at a relatively high dose of ~200mg. In extreme cases Serotonin toxicity can be fatal and has contributed to the deaths of users of PMA , in fact most 4-substituted amphetamines are pretty neurotoxic because of this reason. As long as you stay sensible and don't carry on dosing if you start to get symptoms of hyperthermia, sweating etc I am sure you will be fine
One example where mild-moderate serotonin syndrome occurs at normal recreational dosages is MDMA, SWIM has experienced dynamic feelings of hot and then cold along with sweating and shivering although this was at a relatively high dose of ~200mg. In extreme cases Serotonin toxicity can be fatal and has contributed to the deaths of users of PMA , in fact most 4-substituted amphetamines are pretty neurotoxic because of this reason. As long as you stay sensible and don't carry on dosing if you start to get symptoms of hyperthermia, sweating etc I am sure you will be fine
Im neither a pharmacologist but from what I understand, you are not right, delta.. Being a serotonin agonist is not what makes a substance dangerous. MDMA is dangerous because it causes the release of serotonin. A substance that is a serotonin agonist is not causing the release of serotonin, its attaching to the receptors of serotonin and therefore even preventing serotonin from being attached by those neuroreceptors. The danger is in amphetamines and substances like MDMA (release serotonin), in SSRIs like prozac (they prevent reuptake of serotonin and therefore increase the amount of serotonin in synaptic area) and MAOIs (they prevent the breakdown of serotonin by MAOs).
So no, smoking a lot of dmt wont make you have a serotonin syndrome and neither will taking mushrooms, Dimitri-Trance . Your 'heat stroke', whatever that means, doesnt sound like you are talking about serotonin syndrome. Maybe you are just having just a bit of elevated temperature, faster heartbeat (which are possible physical effects with psychedelics but that are usually mild), and some psycho-somatic symptoms? Like a bad trip that you feel physically ... You said yourself you didnt check the temperature, so thats what I would guess happened
So no, smoking a lot of dmt wont make you have a serotonin syndrome and neither will taking mushrooms, Dimitri-Trance . Your 'heat stroke', whatever that means, doesnt sound like you are talking about serotonin syndrome. Maybe you are just having just a bit of elevated temperature, faster heartbeat (which are possible physical effects with psychedelics but that are usually mild), and some psycho-somatic symptoms? Like a bad trip that you feel physically ... You said yourself you didnt check the temperature, so thats what I would guess happened
The effect of DMT is even the opposite. The amount of serotonin receptors is quickly diminished by a mechanism called downregulation and as a result serotonergic activity in the brain diminishes as well.
Dimitri-Trance
Rising Star
endlessness said:
Well, everything that happens when you get a heat stroke happened to swim. Even to the point were he felt DELIRIOUS! It happened on mushies. (this is what confuses me.) (I tough only lsd,mdma,pcp.ect would be capable of bringing this.)
I assumed swim suffered from serotonin syndrome because lsd combined with another serotonergic substance can cause "SS". Even LSD alone has the potential to cause Serotonin Syndrome.
Dimitri-Trance
Rising Star
pau said:
Thanks brother.
Dimitri-Trance said:
No it doesnt.
What makes you think that 'feeling delirious' wasnt simply psychedelic effects, maybe some you werent used to, or werent ready to deal with at the time? I mean, think about it, people going on a bad trip can start thinking they got poisoned and are dying and actually feel the poison going through their body and things like this. The mind can play a lot of trick on us during psychedelic experiences.
Psychedelics will not cause serotonin syndrome by themselves, really not. Its just not how it works pharmacologically.
Dimitri-Trance
Rising Star
endlessness said:
A large number of medications either alone or in combination can produce serotonin syndrome.
Class Drugs
Antidepressants Monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs),[1] TCAs,[1] SSRIs,[1] SNRIs,[1] bupropion,[6] nefazodone,[7] trazodone[7]
Opioids tramadol,[1] pethidine,[1] fentanyl,[1] pentazocine,[1] buprenorphine[8] oxycodone,[9] hydrocodone[9]
CNS stimulants phentermine,[10] diethylpropion,[10] amphetamine,[3][10] sibutramine,[1] methylphenidate,[10] methamphetamine,[10] cocaine[10]
5-HT1 agonists triptans[1][10]
Psychedelics MDMA,[1] MDA,[1] 5-Methoxy-diisopropyltryptamine,[1] LSD[11][12]
Herbs St John's Wort,[1] Syrian rue,[1] Panax ginseng,[1] Nutmeg[13]
Others tryptophan,[1] L-Dopa,[14] valproate,[1] buspirone,[1] lithium,[1] linezolid,[1][15] dextromethorphan,[1] 5-hydroxytryptophan,[7] chlorpheniramine,[10] risperidone,[16] olanzapine,[17] ondansetron,[1] granisetron,[1] metoclopramide,[1] ritonavir[1]
Some drugs cause excessive internal heat production, even in normal temperature environments.[8] The rate of drug-induced hyperthermia is higher where use of these drugs is higher.[8]
* Many psychotropic medications, such as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs), and tricyclic antidepressants, can cause hyperthermia.[8] Serotonin syndrome often presents following exposure to multiple drugs. Similarly, neuroleptic malignant syndrome is an uncommon reaction to neuroleptic agents.[10] These syndromes are differentiated by the other associated symptoms, such as tremor in serotonin syndrome and "lead-pipe" muscle rigidity in neuroleptic malignant syndrome.[8]
* Many illicit drugs, including amphetamines,[11] cocaine,[12] PCP, LSD, and MDMA can produce hyperthermia as an adverse effect.[8]
* Malignant hyperthermia is a rare reaction to common anesthetic agents (such as halothane) or a reaction to the paralytic agent succinylcholine. Malignant hyperthermia is a genetic condition, and can be fatal.[8]
Look it up braw.
Hyperthermia - Wikipedia
Serotonin syndrome - Wikipedia
O and being delirious is not the same as the effects of what some one takes. Ex: Shrooms, Lsd, Mescaline, Dmt, ect. One who knows what hes doing can recognize the effects between hallucinations and etheogens.
You need to go beyond wikipedia for your information.
Did you look up the sources cited for that information? One of the sources about LSD causing serotonin syndrome is actually an article that talks about mixture of SSRI (fluoxetine) and LSD (as I said, not LSD alone), and the other source only cites LSD in a table where it mentions many possible serotonin-affecting substances, with no mention of any case of LSD induced serotonin sydrome. I also cant find at pubmed any mention of any serotonin syndrome induced by any of the classic psychedelics alone, if you can find I'll humbly stand corrected.
Did you look up the sources cited for that information? One of the sources about LSD causing serotonin syndrome is actually an article that talks about mixture of SSRI (fluoxetine) and LSD (as I said, not LSD alone), and the other source only cites LSD in a table where it mentions many possible serotonin-affecting substances, with no mention of any case of LSD induced serotonin sydrome. I also cant find at pubmed any mention of any serotonin syndrome induced by any of the classic psychedelics alone, if you can find I'll humbly stand corrected.