Should I try aya/changa? If so, which one?

[Tryptamineenthusiast]

Greetings lovely people of the nexus,

For nearly a year now I have been visiting hyperspace every few months using freebase I extracted and my own modified version of the machine. It has had an extraordinarily positive impact on my life--DMT has truly healed my spirit and given my life newfound hope and direction.

I started with DMT, I did DMT before any other psychadellics, and it is still by far my favorite for spiritual journeys towards self-improvement even after experiencing psilocin and LSD. I love vaporized freebase, the short sessions allow for me to spend more time fully in our world while still expiriencing the benefiets of the other place. While I appriciete the short duration of DMT, sometimes I feel I have the time, energy, and motivation to go deeper for longer, (but ideally not as long as LSD).

This leads me to the main topic of this post, this is something that I feel isn't super well explained currently in the aya/pharmahuasca and changa threads. At sufficient doses are these expiriences like a lengthened version of a DMT breakthrough, or are they more similar to a heavy dose of psilocin? I have read that depending on the amound of harmala alkaloids the changa expirience can be as short as a few hours, this seems rather appealing to me, though I do want to know how long it typically takes to reach sobriety again after coming back from the other side, (I know this is going to depend a lot on dose, but I would love to know what that expirience is like). Another reason I want to explore MAOIs is the oral route, I love hiking and climbing and I dont want to compromise my lungs. In terms of duration how to changa and oral routes differ, or is it entirely dependant on the amount of MAOI consumed? I'm not looking for specific dosage information, I just want to know what peoples general expiriences have been between the two. I would also love to know which route you belive is the best for beginners who are expirienced with DMT alone and relativly confortable in hyperspace.

It is of course possible that longer lasting psychadellic expiriences simply aren't for me, my LSD and psilocin expiriences were no where near as positive as my DMT expiriences have been, but I want to try DMT+MAOI before I declare that to be definativly the case.

TLDR: I love the positive impact DMT has had on my life and want to take it further through the addition of MAOIs. I also wonder how similar those expiriences are to a DMT-only breakthrough. I would also love to know which method of administration (oral or vaporised) is better for beginners who want to start with shorter more managable expiriences.

Obviously only I can truly know what is right for me, but I would love to know what the more MAOI-expirienced people here think of my thoughts. I appreciate any and all advice/thoughts you all have.

Much love and happy travelling,

--Tryptamine Enthusiast

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

I love hiking and climbing and I dont want to compromise my lungs

If you don't want to smoke changa to preserve your lungs, you could try what people usually call "vaporhuasca". It's oral MAOI + vaporized DMT. It's a good in-between of changa and ayahuasca method. You'll get same effects as with changa, with maybe more intensity according to oral MAOI dose and all without combustion. Trip will last more or less one hour according to both MAOI and DMT dose, with a long comedown and afterglow (as opposed to the steep comedown of DMT alone), and if it's not long enough, you can easily top up with another puff. With low MAOI it will ressemble more to extended DMT while with high MAOI it will ressemble more to a shrooms-like experience, with harmalas leading and bringing their own coloring to the trip.
About pharmahuasca, the difficulty is to find the good equilibrium between MAOI and DMT dose and also the timing. People often need a few tries before they find the sweet spot. The higher the MAOI, the lower you'll need DMT. There is a risk of overdosing or underdosing. If you want something that is longer lasting than vaporhuasca or changa you could also find the same healing properties in psilohuasca (MAOI+mushrooms), with less hazards in dosing than pharmahuasca. IMO the MAOI+mushrooms combo is quite underrated.

Peace.

 

[Jungleheart]

I like that aya feels more like a logical journey and progression through different stages and find it easier to bring back deeper learning, rather than being blasted at breakneck speeds.

 

[spyfish]

I like that aya feels more like a logical journey and progression through different stages and find it easier to bring back deeper learning, rather than being blasted at breakneck speeds.

I also prefer aya over anything else. Haven’t tried Pharma.

If really adventurous, I very much enjoyed changa at the tail end of good Ayahuasca journeys.

For some reason, vaping spice or changa from sober gets me more nervous than taking that aya cup. But once in the headspace, the threshold to vape/smoke is easier

 

[The Traveler]

I would try this method:

Take a certain dose of harmalas on an empty stomach, then eat something very light to get the digestive system started, this seems to be a big help to get more consistent journeys.

About about 30 minutes to an hour later (this is very user dependent) when you feel the harmalas have kicked in (subtle but noticeable effect) then vape the DMT. You're vaped journey will be streched from 5 minutes peak to about 10-15 minutes peak with a longer come down to complentate your journey.

Also, before going this route make sure you do not use any medicine or other substances that have adverse interaction effects with the MAOI of the harmalas, this is quite a serious health warning!

As a starting dose for harmalas I would start relatively low to see how it feels for you, so say 150-200mg harmalas extract to start with. Or tea from 2-3g crushed seeds (the taste of rue tea is pretty bad, so if possible go for extracted harmalas).

Hope this slowly helps you move into longer journeys where you finally can take a much longer aya/pharma journey ride with better insights and reflection. IMHO those longer journeys are much more worth it than the relative short vape sessions (even with oral harmalas).

Good luck with your adventure!


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[Transform]

2-3 crushed seeds (the taste of rue tea is pretty bad, so if possible go for extracted harmalas).

I'm taking a guess here that maybe you mean 2-3 grams of crushed seeds. Otherwise you got some hella potent seeds there

I use a generous pinch of seeds sublingually practically every day, and every week or two I make a few rapid brews from aroung three grams of ground seeds (brew as though it's tea, plus a couple of scoops of ascorbic acid).

(the taste of rue tea is pretty bad, so if possible go for extracted harmalas)

The tea is something of an acquired taste (and barely that at the very best) - I find the wet dog taste only develops with longer brewing times or with the third re-brew of the same seeds. A generous teaspoon of sweet chestnut honey makes the beverage broadly tolerable. If it tasted better I'd probably do it every day

Sublingual seeds have a certain tang to them that's definitely better than any raw brew. A further advantage is that it's the ultimate lazy technique (but do at least take the trouble to pick out the grit and mouse poop).

 

[spyfish]

The tea is something of an acquired taste

Lightly roasting the seeds on low to medium heat in a dry pan until a slightly nutty smell emerges significantly improves the taste.

Then I usually coarsely grind them and boil for min min before straining and reducing to a shot size. Not sure if grinding is even necessary. I think i used about 2.5 grams rue for aya analogs

 

[The Traveler]

I'm taking a guess here that maybe you mean 2-3 grams of crushed seeds.

Uhm, uhhhh.... probably.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[RowRowRow YourBoat]

If you don't want to smoke changa to preserve your lungs, you could try what people usually call "vaporhuasca". It's oral MAOI + vaporized DMT. It's a good in-between of changa and ayahuasca method. You'll get same effects as with changa, with maybe more intensity according to oral MAOI dose and all without combustion. Trip will last more or less one hour according to both MAOI and DMT dose, with a long comedown and afterglow (as opposed to the steep comedown of DMT alone), and if it's not long enough, you can easily top up with another puff. With low MAOI it will ressemble more to extended DMT while with high MAOI it will ressemble more to a shrooms-like experience, with harmalas leading and bringing their own coloring to the trip.
About pharmahuasca, the difficulty is to find the good equilibrium between MAOI and DMT dose and also the timing. People often need a few tries before they find the sweet spot. The higher the MAOI, the lower you'll need DMT. There is a risk of overdosing or underdosing. If you want something that is longer lasting than vaporhuasca or changa you could also find the same healing properties in psilohuasca (MAOI+mushrooms), with less hazards in dosing than pharmahuasca. IMO the MAOI+mushrooms combo is quite underrated.

Peace.

Great post!

I very much enjoy psilohuasca, actually using psilohuasca was what led me to come to find DMT.

Probably more than the OP cares to know before having tried anything, but since you talk about the aspects of trying to combine and balance the substances I'll share what I have come to do on occasion which is a kind of combination/ingestion order that allows me to have a good, reliable base experience and then allows me to modulate it if I so wish.

So I start with psilohuasca. Oral MAOI and then mushrooms 45 minutes later. Usually I am quite happy with the peak and first half of the psilohuasca experience, but if I didn't take quite enough, or sometimes for the second half when things have started to calm down a bit that's when I will get out the changa and/or freebase dmt. So you already have some oral MAOIs still in your system, plus the mushrooms loosening the works and you can slowly(or quickly) add in more harmalas or dmt to the experience as you desire to dial yourself into some extended experiences at whatever level you are aiming for.

I like that it allows me to get into the waters and feel things out with the psilohuasca experience before really diving in and going deep with dmt. With the psilohuasca, when you choose to go to hyperspace you are (hopefully) already in a positive mood and good mind space that the trip can feed on your energy, positivity, and mindset in a great way. For this reason I enjoy doing changa and dmt even more when I am already on psilohuasca than I normally do.

I'll say this method requires some commitment with the amount of time it takes and also it can be very taxing going through a psilohuasca experience and then ramping up the experience with consuming more harmalas and dmt. You can strengthen and extend the experience basically until you get tired of it. After you call it quits your mind it still racing a bit so it can take some time to get to sleep too. If I do this full combo I usually feel pretty wiped out after, I would never do it if I had work or plans the next morning.

 

[610nanometres]

For me, Aya has always been an event I'm consciously building towards, with some reasonably defined purpose. I see it as a special tool for deep understanding. Now, I've never treated a changa journey in this way, so it's not straight apples to pears, but I tend to be too overwhelmed to consciously bring back too much when smoking a strong blend. It's why I've tended towards 20-25% in my enhanced leaf blends. I'll go upto 50% when adding caapi for a full on changa, but I don't make much like this. I don't feel the need to.
As for lung health, I'm pretty sure that smoking small quantities of a blend which is easy on the lungs, would cause absolutely no issues. A small bong or water pipe would be worthwhile, maybe.
Would be interesting to hear more about why you feel your lsd and mushroom experiences have not been as positive as those with dmt. We're you approaching them in similar ways?

 

[Tryptamineenthusiast]

Would be interesting to hear more about why you feel your lsd and mushroom experiences have not been as positive as those with dmt. We're you approaching them in similar ways?

I always do DMT alone, I set intentions, as a question, turn on music, meditate for an hour, and then hit my pipe. I breakthrough, go on a spiritual journey, learn about myself, and the expirience is always profoundly positive throughout. I have actually found that my subbreakthrough DMT expiriences are often much more overwhelming than the breakthroughs, though they are all still positive.

I approached my two LSD experiences with less care and intention than DMT, I got sent into unpleasant thoughts due to tripping near others, not because they weren't kind or caring, but because I already have social anxiety and the LSD hightened that. I actually gained incredibly valuable insights about the ways I interact with the world but the process was rather unpleasant and lasted 14 hours both times.

I approached mushrooms with much more respect, and lemon tekked 1/8 PE, but got sent to a place of profound disapointment with the way the world has been shaped by modern humans, so much so that the thoughts turned very dark. I have always found that on DMT, once I break through, I can more easily let go of this world and not worry about it, on mushrooms I was all too aware of the harms of this world and I no longer wanted any part in it. I was alone for this whole mushroom experience and after about an hour of peaking on the mushrooms I managed to figure out how to change my music from rythmic chanting to the song "Seven Years" by Lukas Graham, a song I didnt really know at that point but somehow popped into my head as a means out of my spiral. I put the song on loop and the realization that I can enjoy life in spite of the problems with the world filled my soul. This song filled my life with meaning and I truly felt better than I have ever felt, I wanted to share that feeling with the world and I cried happy tears for nearly 2 hours feeling a sense of love for every single person in my life. The second half of this expirience required the first half to occur, but I would not wish the first half upon my worst enemy, nor would I ever choose to repeat that experience.

Many of you have recomended vaporhuasca which is what I will start with, the idea of a slightly lengthened breakthrough expirience appeals to me much more than a longer journey at this time. I hope to someday be more comfortable with longer expiriences. One final question I have for you all is whether you typically do aya and analogues alone? Is there any risk of fluid aspiration if one vomits while breaking through? I am quite expirienced with doing DMT solo, but above are my only expiriences with other psychs, how important is a trip sitter on vaporhuasca?

Thank you all for your insight and advice,

much love,

--Tryptamine Enthusiast

 

[Transform]

Lightly roasting the seeds on low to medium heat in a dry pan until a slightly nutty smell emerges significantly improves the taste.

Then I usually coarsely grind them and boil for min min before straining and reducing to a shot size. Not sure if grinding is even necessary. I think i used about 2.5 grams rue for aya analogs

I used to do this and I'd agree that the flavour does improve somewhat with that method. Lately I've been exploring the raw rue experience but may yet do a bit of roasted rue for comparison. I only grind the seeds so I can brew them like tea or coffee - when simmering I'll leave the seeds whole for a clearer brew.

 

[Transform]

Many of you have recomended vaporhuasca which is what I will start with, the idea of a slightly lengthened breakthrough expirience appeals to me much more than a longer journey at this time. I hope to someday be more comfortable with longer expiriences. One final question I have for you all is whether you typically do aya and analogues alone? Is there any risk of fluid aspiration if one vomits while breaking through? I am quite expirienced with doing DMT solo, but above are my only expiriences with other psychs, how important is a trip sitter on vaporhuasca?

That's a really important question, best answered by someone with more vaporhuasca experience, and/or a lower nausea threshold, than me.

I've always been able to snap out of whatever trance I've been in to attend to bodily functions (I self-potty-trained at a very early age, so this is very deeply ingrained for me, for example) but YMMV (as well as my doses usually being on the lighter side: in fact, I find my general inability to physically purge somewhat frustrating at times, even though I was afflicted with a gastrointestinal hypersensitivity for several years after getting giardia - maybe I purged rather a lot already... hmmm...). If you're likely to be going for fully incapacitating, initiatory-level doses a sitter would likely be preferable.

 

[spyfish]

One final question I have for you all is whether you typically do aya and analogues alone? Is there any risk of fluid aspiration if one vomits while breaking through?

Indeed quite important question, as this can potentially happen. I’ve heard stories of this, and although I cannot verify, it is plausible.

Thats why personally I always brew bigger batches and slowly dose test to find “therapeutic” dose. (Typically been around 3g mhrb or acrb for me) When I'm completely alone i make sure to stay at a dose I'm still coherent, able to go toilet if need be etc. If I plan to go very deep, or push above known dose id make sure at least my partner was home.

I have been wreckless in the past and just made sure i was lying sideways. Not exactly full proof safety. Wouldn’t advise

Known reasonable and tested doses with experience I would not be worried about.

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

how important is a trip sitter on vaporhuasca?

DMT can definitely accentuate or trigger the rue nausea which may lead to vomit. Most of the time I do vaporhuasca alone, that's why when I'm lying down I settle most of the time in "side safety position" - not sure of the translation, "PLS - Position Latérale de Sécurité" in French - which is a first aid rule to avoid one choking on puke. I never puked on vaporhuasca but did it on (very) strong rue brews. Just keep in mind puking is something that might happen when harmalas are involved (it is emetic per se). Some lemon and/or ginger before drinking the rue brew might help with nausea.

Peace.

 

[Transform]

DMT can definitely accentuate or trigger the rue nausea which may lead to vomit. Most of the time I do vaporhuasca alone, that's why when I'm lying down I settle most of the time in "side safety position" - not sure of the translation, "PLS - Position Latérale de Sécurité" in French - which is a first aid rule to avoid one choking on puke. I never puked on vaporhuasca but did it on (very) strong rue brews. Just keep in mind puking is something that might happen when harmalas are involved (it is emetic per se).

Peace.

In (UK) English this is known as "the recovery position", at least during First Aid lessons and procedures.

Some lemon and/or ginger before drinking the rue brew might help with nausea.

The Secret-Alchemist Club Anti-Nausea Shot

The Secret-Alchemist Club Anti-Nausea Shot 2oz Fresh Squeezed Ginger Juice from Juicer [or the juicerless juice method mentioned below] 7 Drops Essential Oil of Lemon 3 Drops Essential Oil of Peppermint 3 Drops Essential Oil of Clove 3 Drops Essential Oil of Lavender 1.) Mix it all up and take...

forum.dmt-nexus.me

 

[610nanometres]

Greetings lovely people of the nexus,

For nearly a year now I have been visiting hyperspace every few months using freebase I extracted and my own modified version of the machine. It has had an extraordinarily positive impact on my life--DMT has truly healed my spirit and given my life newfound hope and direction.

I started with DMT, I did DMT before any other psychadellics, and it is still by far my favorite for spiritual journeys towards self-improvement even after experiencing psilocin and LSD. I love vaporized freebase, the short sessions allow for me to spend more time fully in our world while still expiriencing the benefiets of the other place. While I appriciete the short duration of DMT, sometimes I feel I have the time, energy, and motivation to go deeper for longer, (but ideally not as long as LSD).

This leads me to the main topic of this post, this is something that I feel isn't super well explained currently in the aya/pharmahuasca and changa threads. At sufficient doses are these expiriences like a lengthened version of a DMT breakthrough, or are they more similar to a heavy dose of psilocin? I have read that depending on the amound of harmala alkaloids the changa expirience can be as short as a few hours, this seems rather appealing to me, though I do want to know how long it typically takes to reach sobriety again after coming back from the other side, (I know this is going to depend a lot on dose, but I would love to know what that expirience is like). Another reason I want to explore MAOIs is the oral route, I love hiking and climbing and I dont want to compromise my lungs. In terms of duration how to changa and oral routes differ, or is it entirely dependant on the amount of MAOI consumed? I'm not looking for specific dosage information, I just want to know what peoples general expiriences have been between the two. I would also love to know which route you belive is the best for beginners who are expirienced with DMT alone and relativly confortable in hyperspace.

It is of course possible that longer lasting psychadellic expiriences simply aren't for me, my LSD and psilocin expiriences were no where near as positive as my DMT expiriences have been, but I want to try DMT+MAOI before I declare that to be definativly the case.

TLDR: I love the positive impact DMT has had on my life and want to take it further through the addition of MAOIs. I also wonder how similar those expiriences are to a DMT-only breakthrough. I would also love to know which method of administration (oral or vaporised) is better for beginners who want to start with shorter more managable expiriences.

Obviously only I can truly know what is right for me, but I would love to know what the more MAOI-expirienced people here think of my thoughts. I appreciate any and all advice/thoughts you all have.

Much love and happy travelling,

--Tryptamine Enthusiast

I've never thought of smoked dmt as a tool for introspection, and while I can't speak to lsd, shrooms and aya have both provided me this in spades. I'm kind of drawn more to mushrooms now. Definitely more from my culture, being a Celt, but I would suggest going with whichever resonates with you for whichever questions you need help with.

 

[Tryptamineenthusiast]

A quick update for you wonderful nexus folk,

Thanks to your collective wisdom I made the decision to consume a low dose of vaporhuasca today. I made a delicious tea with 2g raw rue seeds and then took two low breakthrough doses of vaporized DMT, the 2nd just after I returned from the first. That extra integration time truly is unbelivably valuable. I met new entities, explored my mind, and learned quite a bit about life in the process. Yet another transformative experience helping me on my journey to becoming the truest version of myself, thanks in no small part to this community we have here at the DMT nexus.

I will explore this path further when the time is right,
Much love,

--Tryptamine enthusiast

 

[Voidmatrix]

I find them to be pretty different (pharma vs aya vs changa). I would really explore them all if I were you.

However @The Traveler has given some great advice imo. Harmalas are as important to me as DMT at this point. I've taken and smoalked them often for years now. Interestingly, there are many Ayahuasceros that will tell you the harmala containing plants are the real medicine... My favorite thing to do is smoke harmalas and then meditate.

There's so much I can say here, only because I smoalk a fair amount of changa

I tend to smoalk changa while I'm on pharma, because again, and like others have described, it's a different kind of experience, with changa being the middle ground between Aya/pharma and FB DMT. You will still get powerful visions smoalking chnaga.

Though it's yet another flavor of experience when you do vaporhuasca.

So again, I'd say explore them all, see what fits. If you're not a smoker, your lungs will likely experience little degredation from smoalking changa from time to time. This is coming from a chronic smoker that smoalks a lot of changa and likes to go hiking

Changa Musings

While meditating this evening (after playing my role-playing game over Zoom with some buddies and preppin mushroom tubs before loading them with spawn and substrate, and scraping some lovely deems), I had a few changa ideas that I thought I'd share with you all. The thought process sorta began...

forum.dmt-nexus.me

I talk about some different blends I've made in the above thread.

The more harmalas you add, the longer the experience will be. My heaviest batch is a 1:1:1 blend of DMT, Harmalas, and herbs. I was up for over 45 minutes before really starting to come down, the come down was really long, and it was awesome, especially since I didn't go that deep.

I love pharma. It's amazing in it's own right.

I just haven't time to do Aya (though I have everything I need to make it).

One love

 

[Tryptamineenthusiast]

Another update after raising the rue dose...

Hello wonderful humans,

As I am sure many of you already know the path we walk upon is treacherous. DMT on its own is full of whimsy and wonder and secrets of the mind, but in a way it is easy; unburdened with the unknowable horrors of the world humans have created for ourselves. It is your own place in these things that the true medicine lays bare, this experience is not enjoyable by any means.

I made a mistake, I went looking for psychedelics to heal my soul--I wanted them to do it for me, while I sat back and watched the pretty colors. Today I asked to be taught about life before doing a large large dose of vaporhuasca. Be careful what you wish for.

I now know that the only way to learn about life is to experience it, the only way to be yourself is to show others who you are, the only way to heal yourself is to never forget where you have been and to go forth with intention and not fear, and the only way to live is to ground yourself in life.

I needed to learn what I learned, but it was not easy.

Psychedelics are an unreasonably harsh teacher when you need to learn, and when you don't simply live your life instead. If you are reading this and have not yet experienced the experience described above I strongly caution against following this path any further. As long as you live with intention and follow your soul you will not wander to far astray.

It is time for me to move on from mental self exploration and to go find who I am through friends and relationships.

In simpler terms, I need to bite the bullet and get my shit together before I throw away this gift that is life.

This is what shrooms were trying to tell me and why I "didnt really like them", I simply didn't understand.

The modern world is built by humans but it is not built for humans, it is built for profit and exploitation. We work all day and when we get home we drown ourselves in drink and TV pretending we are living by immersing ourselves in the lives of fictional characters. We ignore and drown out the harsh reality of the modern world because it hurts our poor little heads. Its time to grow up. Its time to find community, to make art and songs, thats all we have, even if its only for a fleeting moment.

I wish I had religion to turn to, but I did not grow up with it, and the idea of blind faith is one I cannot force my brain to accept.

I wish I was beutiful, but I am only as beutiful as I make the world for the people I care about the most.

I wish this world was made of small villages with rich cultures where people are valued for their depth and not their thinness, but it is not and I cannot change that, all I can do is bring a sense of community to the people in my own life.

I am 20, far to young to be meddling with my mind, but at least I am wise enough to know to never try to forget this experience (though I'm not sure such a thing is possible). I will instead embrace it and make it the fire in my soul that keeps me trying new things and bringing joy to those around me, because without that I am worse than nothing.

Each one of you nexians is on your own journey through life and DMT and my heart goes out to those of you still trying to find your place in this backwards world. The key is to always keep looking and to never give up.

Much love,

--Tryptamine Enthusiast