• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Should we take supplements to prolong life? (Q for scientists)

Migrated topic.
O

ohayoco

Rising Star
Senior Member
OG Pioneer
Senior member
I would be really grateful if the scientists on here could advise the rest of us on whether or not we should be taking supplements to prolong life.

I'd be grateful if only those who are suitably qualified gave opinions, rather than those who know as much as I do (which is not too much)... so as to not cloud the issue, I hope that's ok? I promise to listen and not argue about that which I am not qualified to argue about :)

Basically, this comes from when I was reading about the potential future prospect of biological immortality on Wikipedia, like that species of jellyfish apparently already enjoys. Yes I have been contemplating my own mortality recently! From there I followed a link to a website about prolonging life in the hope of living long enough to benefit from future scientific advances.

I ended up finding the attached PDF, and would really like to know if the scientists on here think this guy is right or just full of it. I'll post my notes afterwards so you don't have to read the whole thing like I did, and can just dip in if you want to read more on one of his recommendations. I'd like to be sure he's not a scammer or a looney... I am sceptical already, but still would be interested to know if there's at least something in supplements, even if this PDF is rubbish.

If you know of a better manual for prolonging life optimally, please do post it.

Until now I have always advocated a healthy diet alone, without supplements. I don't really want to take them, but if they would really prolong my life, I would start taking them. The idea is to achieve optimal health, rather than normal health, which is why I am now open to the idea of supplements.

My concerns are that they may be just a waste of money, or actually detrimental to health, or make the body rely on them so less able to extract properly from food naturally, or that they may be contaminated, etc.

Thanks for taking the time to read this thread :)
 

Attachments

  • ownersmanual.pdf
    459.1 KB · Views: 0
Maximum Life Foundation- my notes
(stuff that wasn't already blindingly obvious or I might forget got written down)

Written by David E.Kekich and Peter A.Passaro (no qualifications?)

Pathway of links that I took from Wikipedia to find this PDF:

Life extension - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org

Cryonics - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Seriöse Steroide Shop - Anabolika Kaufen Online - SteroideMeister

Möchten Sie Steroide online kaufen? SteroideMeister bietet Ihnen echte Steroide zum besten Preis. Ohne Rezept erforderlich. Schnelle und sichere Lieferung.
www.maxlife.org www.maxlife.org


WHAT IS AGEING AND WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT IT NOW?

-Anti-inflammation: ...avoid coffee and alcohol, take a daily baby aspirin with biggest meal

SUPPLEMENTATION

-Quotes Dr Bruce Ames at Cal State Berkey that over 50 genetic diseases are proven to be correctable by agressive nutritional supplementation
-Author says diet and RDA's will never do for optimal health
-Says thousands of studies support supplementation
-Take a daily high potency multi vitamin tablet and essential fatty acids
-Take two high quality fish oil capsules with every meal
-A-L cartinine
-PS (phospatidylserine)
-PC (phospatidylcholine)
-DMAE
-EPA/DHA
-Folic acid
-Some B vitamins
-Vitamin C: 250mg twice daily
-Vitamin E: 500mg per day, higher if have cancer or heart disease, take mixed natural tocopherols and tocotrienols
-Coenzyme Q-10 (CoQ10): 50mg daily (higher if heart disease or elderly, up to 400mg a day)
-Glutathione: broken down in digestive tract so take lipoic acid. Avoid smoking, alcohol and nitrates found in lunchmeats etc to keep gluthathione levels high.
-Lipic Acid
-Carnisine
-Says he gets his recommendations from Dr Lester Packer of University of California Berkeley
-Flavanoids: found in tea, berries, red wine, many fruits, most powerful in pycnogenol (pine bark) and ginkgo biloba
-Ginkgo biloba: 30mg daily
-Pycnogenol: 20mg daily
-Carotenoids: from brightly coloured fruit and veg, but eat organic as more nutrients and less toxins. Supplement for optimal health.
-Selenium: 200mcg (micrograms) a day
-Melatonin: 3mg or less before bed
-See an anti-ageing physician for optimal health
-Cites www.lef.org (Life Extension Foundation) as a source, says not-for-profit seller of supplements. Is this a scam, and this is his company?


EXERCISE:

-3-7 times for 20 mins or more per week
-Says ideally 6 to 7 days a week for 20 to 45 mins
-Warm up for 5 mins to bring heart rate to 50% of your maximum, finish off by walking or continuing at reduced rate, stretch at end of workout
-Must significantly raise heartrate for at least 20 mins for max effect
-Don't go over 45 mins
-Doing in morning burns fat
-Says to use THR & Borg scale to calculate target heart rates

LIFESTYLE

Mouth hygiene:
-Gargle. Even better, Waterpik with warm salt water.
-Brush and floss
-Use a plaque stain tablet to see which areas to focus better on
-Be wary of overly eager dentists: gum absesses are often mistaken for nerve abscesses which require root canal
-Your dentist should not scrape tartar from your teeth, as this may scrape off enamel: more effective to dissolve tartar
-Regeneration of teeth: you may be able to remineralise your teeth with a highly concentrated solution of calcium and phosphorus

Common sense and safety:
-Maintain vehicle well- brakes and tyres inspected regularly
-Drive defensively
-Fire extinguisher in kitchen
-Smoke detector in every room
-All emergency numbers next to telephone
-Read labels of household chemicals, & be careful mixing
-Use products that give off fumes in well ventilated areas
-Don't store chemicals near open flames or heat sources
-Don't use or store toxic substances around food
-Don't take medication in the dark nor take out of date or crumbled, changed colour etc
-At least one person in every household first aid & CPR qualified

Environmental concerns:
-Don't smoke (50% of smokers killed by their habit)
-Don't exercise on busy streets, due to fumes
-Test your house for radon, install radon detectors and vents
-Maintain air quality by installing air filtration unit in home
-Filter water. Best to filter selectively, removing contaminants but not minerals- if you have a reverse osmosis unit, take a good mineral supplement. Some recommend water ionisers that alkalise your water.
-Wear sunblock that blocks both UVA & UVB


ANTI-AGING MEDICINE

-See a good intelligent anti-aging specialist. Extensive blood panel, colonoscopies every 5-10 years after age of 50, other tests to monitor health etc
-Hormone replacement once over 50- monitored by intelligent physician so the right amount, not too much
-Melatonin & DHEA supplements alongside hormone replacement
-Beware of snake-oil cons

Unconventional therapies for cancer:
-COX-2 inhibitors: the natural supplement curcumin is recommended, not Celebrex nor Vioxx which have been linked to deaths
-Statins, e.g. lovastatin
-Perhaps in future angiostatin & endostatin


DIET

-Calorific restriction: reduce calorie intake by 30% (but not if over 70 and already close to ideal weight, as elederly have difficulty absorbing food and restriction only prolongs life if begun in young animals). See work of Dr. Roy Walford.
-Avoid refined sugar and starches, increase fruit & veg intake
-Good anti-ageing: blueberries, bilberries, purple grapes (all for anthocyanins), strawberries (ellagic acid), tomatoes (lycopene)
-Eat high nutrient rather than low nutrient carbs- bright fruit & veg, sweet potatoes, whole grains & brown rice instead of refined
-Combine fruit with protein & healthy fats to slow sugar absorption
-Eat more lean protein, mostly from plants if possible- plants have 1/7th the contaminants of animal products. Eat 6 servings of quality protein a day plus soy whey and egg protein powder (one serving equals 3 ounces of meat)
-Lower fat intake and replace bad fats (from meat & dairy) with good fats (fresh olives, olive oil, canola oil, avocados, nuts, fish oil supplement)
-Eat more fish, at least 3 times per week, limiting intake of larger fish at top of food chain such as tuna, swordfish & shark due to mercury contamination
-Lower intake of red meat (cancer & bad fat)- instead ostrich meat best, skinless poultry breast ok, egg whites, beans/legumes, soy products
-Avoid blackened or burnt food (cancer)
-For a 2000 calorie diet: 40% carbohydrate, 40% protein, 20% fat (percentage of calories), or slightly higher protein and reduce other two. Shift to more complex carbs if observing strict reduced calorie diet.
-Five to six smaller meals healthier than three larger
-At least half an ounce of filtered water per pound of body weight a day, eliminating soda and coffee
-No refined foods


STRESS MANAGEMENT

-No caffeine (mimics effects of stress, releasing excess cortisol & catecholamines)
-Low carbs
-Low salt
-Manage difficult situations without overreacting
-Get enough rest, 8 hours sleep
-Meditate
-Manage life better, e.g. personal goal setting and time management
-DHEA supplements
-Green tea
-Exercise
-Regular vacations


LIFE IN GENERAL

-This is where the advice falls apart. This section is bizarre and makes me question whether to believe the rest of the PDF.
-He talks a lot about business, which makes me wonder if it's his business selling supplements. He seems overly commercially driven- "Assume the attitude that if you don't reach your goals, you will literally die! ... gun-to-your-head survival", and some of the things he says are contrary to my own beliefs and things I have been taught by reputable people.
-He seems to put himself under a lot of stress, which is against his own advice.
-He is right wing- "Socialism appeals to intellectual weaklings"... I would say it appeals to kind people, not just those who benefit from it.
-He says "Business is the highest evolution of consciousness and morality" !!!
-"Maintain a blood-smelling, fighter pilot life-or-death attitude when any deal gets near to a close".
-"The world's highest achievers have the highest levels of dissatisfaction"... yet he tells us to cultivate desire, as if this were a good thing!
-"Security is the lowest form of happiness" !!!
-"It is anti-property, therfore anti-capitalist and anti-life." !!!
-"maximum profits"
-"Attack life"
-"The purpose of life is to delay, avoid and eventually reverse death." Reverse death???!
-Offers special gratitude to inappropriate people he's never met e.g. Winston Churchill
-Crappy logo for Maximum Life Foundation, and crappy trademarked name (SALADS)

I now wonder if I've been reading the work of a looney... I must admit it wouldn't be the first time the internet had wasted my time :?
 
Dimitrius said:
Try taking a high-quality Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) extract/tincture.
Click to expand...
That's a sedative, why would one take a sedative as a supplement? There are so many great adaptogens out there that are not sedatives.
 
Evening Glory said:
Dimitrius said:
Try taking a high-quality Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) extract/tincture.
Click to expand...
That's a sedative, why would one take a sedative as a supplement? There are so many great adaptogens out there that are not sedatives.
Click to expand...

It's not necessarily sedative. Take enough and yes, sedative...but mildly so. In moderate dosages, it is a marvelous rejuvenative and adaptogen.

I take it throughout the day everyday in moderate amounts and I find it to be very calming and centering, and even energizing, because it replenishes my energy stores.

It gives nourishment to the nervous system and all the tissues of the body. It's a wonderful builder of the body, especially muscle tissue.

There is much more to it than it's nervine/mild sedative qualities. Look up some stuff on it.
 
I have tried it, all I got was a crappy sedated feeling, irritating headache and a bit stomach discomfort. In low doses I did get a calming and centering effect without much sedation, but the headache was still there. I did not try it in mini-doses over long time, as I don't like to take even minute doses of something sedating. Maybe I should give it another try, perhaps with a product I know is of higher quality? Can you recommend a tincture or extract?

Anyway, I found this paper on Ashwagandha, going to read it later. Maybe someone else wants to too.
 

Attachments

  • Withania+Somnifera+(Ashwagandha).pdf
    85.3 KB · Views: 0
I think the vast majority of dietary supplements are bullshit and a waste of money.

Half the time they don't even contain the levels of active components they claim (analytical studies have been done on material bought off shelfs). Not for all supplements but a lot of them.

The vast majority of claims about them are basically inconclusive. Marketing people will find a study where they say an anti inflammatory effect of some herb on rats and then BAM its all over the internet bam bam bam new supplement change your life on all the magazines bam bam pharmaceutical industry doesn't want yyou to know THIS CAN CHANGE YOUR LIFE bam bam over and over and over. Its called marketing not science.


Eat healthy balanced and varied diet and you will get all your nutritional needs.

Taking vitamins or supplements isn't a bad thing but basing your entire life around using them is a waste of money and potentially risky.


I personally find it funny and ironic how some of you will make claims like "msg its poison" and then take "trytophan its medicine" without realize that they are both just raw forms of amino acids that you get in your diet anyway. Its all marketing.

Unless serious conclusive studies have been done don't believe any of it. (note one or two animal studies or a poorly performed population correlation study are not conclusive studies).
 
I have to say I absolutely agree with you burnt! But when it comes to MSG, I have to disagree. Personally, I feel physically ill if I eat food with MSG. I have several times felt bad after eating food I thought was free of it, only to afterwards find out that it did indeed contain MSG. In other words, this is not placebo.

The symptoms I get is a slight headache, pressure on my chest which slows down my breathing, some numbness in my face, and a general unpleasent feeling that best can be described as similar to alcohol hangover. After experiencing this, I read up on the "MSG symptom complex", and the symptoms fit perfectly. The complex is not bullshit, even FDA acknowledge its existence. So while many people perhaps don't experience these symptoms, some do, and therefore MSG is a bad thing to at least some people.

My intolerance against MSG developed when I started to eat mainly vegetarian food, stopped eating sucrose, started regularly meditating and in all became much more conscious about my body and what it likes and dislikes. This leads me to believe that many people do indeed have an intolerance of MSG, but are too unconscious about their own body to notice it. That's the case for me, at least.
 
burnt said:
I think the vast majority of dietary supplements are bullshit and a waste of money.

Half the time they don't even contain the levels of active components they claim (analytical studies have been done on material bought off shelfs). Not for all supplements but a lot of them.
Click to expand...

I agree. You really have to know where to get them. Most stuff in the stores are just not very good, and even ineffective.
 
Thanks for the comments. I have to admit that what I was hoping for was to be told that supplements are generally BS! I've still got an open mind though, but they're so expensive so I'm not going to part with my money for anything that isn't proven to be effective just yet.

I think there is something in the fish oil thing. It's said we evolved as coastal hunter gatherers, which I think fits with all the proven nutritional advice I've heard- lots of seafood, less carbs, less red meat, more plants, more berries, more nuts, as much variety as possible, etc. I expect insects are overly missing from our diet these days, I wonder if that'd help!!

However, I just looked at fish oil tablets in the shop and they all had beef gelatin in them, among other things. Beef gelatin is something I have avoided since the BSE outbreak. I think I'll start putting a few tablespoons of ground flaxseed into muesli instead for omega 3, and try to eat more seafood. Are crustaceons a good source of omega 3, or is it just oily fish that we're meant to eat more of?

R.E. monosodiumglutamate- I have an intolerance too, that's not BS it's not a nice feeling at all. It started in my teens. I get a dull headache with tightness between my eyes and ears (is this called the temples?), I feel bad and I get really thirsty. A lot of people get this, and I agree maybe some just don't notice because they feel awful all the time anyway! My mother is intolerant too. That's how I can tell if Chinese food is good quality or not, by whether I get symptoms or not. Sometimes I've even got a reaction from UK Indian food, but only a few times. Using MSG = talentless lazy chef. Also, I have heard that too much of it is giving Chinese people cataracts, but I don't know if that's true as I expect I got that from mainstream press.

What do people think about calorie restriction? Is this really proven to work? Anyone here ever tried it?

Benzyme, which of the supplements would you recommend?
 
spirulina is a good source of vitamins as well as fatty acids. Since the fatty acids in fish basicly come from algea, i would say that it could probably replace both vitamin pills as well as those fish oil capsules.

Spirulina has a mood enhancing effect. It's no miracle pill, but it's a good source for all kinds of essential stuff.
 
Your original question was “Should we take supplements to prolong life?”

Here’s a more basic question (one that I’m sure will cause unease for some people):

Should we do anything to prolong life?
 
I'm not a scientist :D

But i can recommend you to take NATURAL supplements.
There is one, i take actually:
MännerVital from Dr. Jakobs

It's a great supplement which provides every vitamin :)
 
I should be more clear MSG does have side effects I didn't mean to imply that it doesn't. But yea my point was that side effects are also possible with things in dietary supplements, bad example though.

Also I should say that not all supplements are BS. Some really do work but mostly for minor every day ailments. If you have serious medical conditions sometimes they also can help (some people do have dietary deficiencies or metabolic deficiencies that can be fixed with vitamins etc).

But yea basically what I am trying to say is be aware that a lot of information out there is hype and marketing. There are good products and there will be good products in the future but that will only happen if consumers are informed and make the right choices and support the right industries/research.
 
Here's a pretty awesome data visualization of evidence for different supplements.

Regarding MSG, the manufactured kind supposed to be 96% or more of the L- enantiomer. I wonder if the negative effects come from excessive D- in the proportion; in traditional cooking it would all have been L-, produced by biological processes.
 
What lovely visualisations, thank you!
I wish you didn't have to rollover to see what each thing is good for- means I can't take a snapshot to save for future reference. They should change that.
 
I would definitely avoid multivitamin supplements. There is no scientific evidence(as far as I'm aware) to suggest they do any good whatsoever. One UK study last year (can't remember where/who) found that they can cause major harm...you definitely don't want too much vitamins A or D or they can attack the liver. Vitamin C and selenium were the only substances found not to cause any harm...although no benefit was found either! In some cases, such as for deficiencies, I can imagine supplements being helpful, such as iron tablets for anaemia etc. But diet is the key.

Recently I tried 1/3 of a friend's multi B vitamin pill, and all that resulted was this slight, but annoying dull headache for the better part of the day, and this brightly fluorescent urine for the day (kinda looked like it might flourese under UV). Can't be good…and this with just 1/3 of a tablet!

So I think diet, exercise, life style and mind set are all important, try and have a mix of raw and cooked food, some raw cocoa, spirulina, hemp seed, fresh fruit and veg, all that good stuff.
 
Bancopuma said:
Recently I tried 1/3 of a friend's multi B vitamin pill, and all that resulted was this slight, but annoying dull headache for the better part of the day, and this brightly fluorescent urine for the day (kinda looked like it might flourese under UV). Can't be good…and this with just 1/3 of a tablet!
Click to expand...

you think that a B-complex vitamin can't be good for you?

So I think diet, exercise, life style and mind set are all important, try and have a mix of raw and cooked food, some raw cocoa, spirulina, hemp seed, fresh fruit and veg, all that good stuff.
Click to expand...


where do you think supplements come from? they are often derived from food sources.
how can you conclude that supplements don't work, but the foods you eat that contain the same compounds do?
 
Back
Top Bottom