• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Should we vaporize our tryptamines with a tragic spirit? Nietzsche and DMT

Migrated topic.

martiemcfry

Rising Star
This is from Ecce Homo, Niezsche's autobiography. It has some parallels with the psychedelic experience, the attitude towards the wholly other and specifically with the intensity of DMT, I think. The great health, the superhuman strenght of spirit must be renowed constantly, for it is lost also constantly to the certainty that we are playing with fire. To lurk transhumanly among everything that was understood as divine requires a special kind of will, one that requires no warranties, no company, and perhaps no return. Should we vaporize our tryptamines with a tragic spirit?

Ecce Homo, on Thus spoke Zarathustra, chapter 2
Being new, nameless, self-evident, we premature births of an as yet unproven future, we need for a new goal also a new means -namely, a new health, stronger, more seasoned, tougher, more audacious, and gayer than any previous health. Whoever has a soul that craves to have experienced the whole range of values and desiderata to date, and to have sailed around all the coasts of this ideal "mediterranean"; whoever wants to know from the adventures of his own most authentic experience how a discoverer and conqueror of the ideal feels, and also an artist, a saint, a legislator, a sage, a scholar, a pious man, and one who stands divinely apart in the old style -needs one thing above everything else: the great health- that one does not merely have but also acquires continually, and must acquire because one gives it up again and again, and must give it up.

And now, after we have long been on our way in this manner, we argonauts of the ideal, with more daring perhaps than is prudent, and have suffered shipwreck and damage often enough, but are, to repeat it, healthier than one likes to permit us, dangerously healthy, ever again healthy- it will seem to us as if, as a reward, we now confronted an as yet undiscovered country whose boundaries nobody has surveyed yet, something beyond all the lands and nooks of the ideal so far, a world so overrich in what is beautiful, strange, questionable, terrible, and divine that our curiosity as well as our craving to possess it has got beside itself- alas, now nothing will sate us any more!

After such vistas and with such a burning hunger in our conscience and science, how could we still be satisfied with present-day man? It may be too bad but it is inevitable that we find it difficult to remain serious when we look at his worthiest goals and hopes, and perhaps we do not even bother to look any more.

Another ideal runs ahead of us, a strange, tempting, dangerous ideal to which we should not wish to persuade anybody because we do not readily concede the right to it to anyone: the ideal of a spirit who plays naively –that is, not deliberately but from overflowing power and abundance- with all that was hitherto called holy, good, untouchable, divine; for whom those supreme things that the people naturally accept as their value standards, signify danger, decay, debasement, or at least recreation, blindness, and temporary self-oblivion; the ideal of a human, superhuman well-being and benevolence that will often appear inhuman –for example, when it confronts all earthly seriousness so far, all solemnity in gesture, word, tone, eye, morality, and task so far, as if it were their most incarnate and involuntary parody- and in spite of all of this, it is perhaps only with him that great seriousness really begins, that the real question mark is posed for the first time, that the destiny of the soul changes, the hand moves forward, the tragedy begins.
 
martiemcfry said:
This is from Ecce Homo, Niezsche's autobiography. It has some parallels with the psychedelic experience, the attitude towards the wholly other and specifically with the intensity of DMT, I think. The great health, the superhuman strenght of spirit must be renowed constantly, for it is lost also constantly to the certainty that we are playing with fire. To lurk transhumanly among everything that was understood as divine requires a special kind of will, one that requires no warranties, no company, and perhaps no return. Should we vaporize our tryptamines with a tragic spirit?

playing it fire? yes. renowned? a must. special kind of will? hard coded in our genes. doeas all this require a sacrafice? yes.. of our self our ego.
Ecce Homo, on Thus spoke Zarathustra, chapter 2
Being new, nameless, self-evident, we premature births of an as yet unproven future, we need for a new goal also a new means -namely, a new health, stronger, more seasoned, tougher, more audacious, and gayer than any previous health. Whoever has a soul that craves to have experienced the whole range of values and desiderata to date, and to have sailed around all the coasts of this ideal "mediterranean"; whoever wants to know from the adventures of his own most authentic experience how a discoverer and conqueror of the ideal feels, and also an artist, a saint, a legislator, a sage, a scholar, a pious man, and one who stands divinely apart in the old style -needs one thing above everything else: the great health- that one does not merely have but also acquires continually, and must acquire because one gives it up again and again, and must give it up.

agreed. So many have tried but more have failed. Obvioudly as a spiecies we have more to learn.
And now, after we have long been on our way in this manner, we argonauts of the ideal, with more daring perhaps than is prudent, and have suffered shipwreck and damage often enough, but are, to repeat it, healthier than one likes to permit us, dangerously healthy, ever again healthy- it will seem to us as if, as a reward, we now confronted an as yet undiscovered country whose boundaries nobody has surveyed yet, something beyond all the lands and nooks of the ideal so far, a world so overrich in what is beautiful, strange, questionable, terrible, and divine that our curiosity as well as our craving to possess it has got beside itself- alas, now nothing will sate us any more!

yes, we are the dominant species but often I wonder if we're the smartest. so many before us have pervailed with minimum requiremens like the ant. Yes many states to explore and we understand there diff states but we dont tunderstand what is and how it all works. That is the beauty withim itself.. many to be discovered my friend and yes, we are without mistake.. we are not perfect but we also have to oportunity to redeem. So let us explore and find for the final hour will come too soon.

After such vistas and with such a burning hunger in our conscience and science, how could we still be satisfied with present-day man? It may be too bad but it is inevitable that we find it difficult to remain serious when we look at his worthiest goals and hopes, and perhaps we do not even bother to look any more.

Look not in the accomplishmens of others but in the accomplishments of your own life for those are the ones that have true meaning

Another ideal runs ahead of us, a strange, tempting, dangerous ideal to which we should not wish to persuade anybody because we do not readily concede the right to it to anyone: the ideal of a spirit who plays naively –that is, not deliberately but from overflowing power and abundance- with all that was hitherto called holy, good, untouchable, divine; for whom those supreme things that the people naturally accept as their value standards, signify danger, decay, debasement, or at least recreation, blindness, and temporary self-oblivion; the ideal of a human, superhuman well-being and benevolence that will often appear inhuman –for example, when it confronts all earthly seriousness so far, all solemnity in gesture, word, tone, eye, morality, and task so far, as if it were their most incarnate and involuntary parody- and in spite of all of this, it is perhaps only with him that great seriousness really begins, that the real question mark is posed for the first time, that the destiny of the soul changes, the hand moves forward, the tragedy begins.
In a respectable manner. I disagree. I think that once we can let go of everthing we know and hold n dearly to .. we can truly be born again.. Then tragedy decipates and bliss begins. we return to our natural state which is one.
 
Thanks for replying opekone.
I think that when Nietzsche refers to the tragedy, or the tragic view of the world, he's talking about a view that accepts everything as-is, as something neccesary and integral no matter how strange, relentless or confounding it might be. This yes-saying attitude towards life is was allows us to embrace existence as a whole, even our very limited and perhaps irrelevant existence as a species in the universe. I think that this is a view that allows for a suppression of the ego, the heaviest baggage when traveling to hyperspace. I have had my ass throughly kicked by the elves and i think that it has been an ego function, to try to define, question, or even hold on to the trip. I've learn from these trips perhaps more than from the blissful ones.
So it is neccesary to continually acquire this health that allows us to sit down and smoke dmt. To only indulge on the experience, or to define it as intrinsecally benign is dangerous, for we dont know what it really is. But to fear and be hopeful, get annihilated yet ecstatic, to cry of hopelessness and blissfulness at the same time, this is this tragic spirit that embraces the whole and moves forward with it towards the unknown.

This tragic view is something that separates us from everything we have understood as human, and place us in some kind of existence where morality, and our understanding of reality is worlds far from human. Its closer to the divine in the sense that is fully unknown and overpowering, and the only possibility is to surrender (the ego?). Maybe sages, boddishatvas and prophets know this, but perhaps also serial killers and mass murderers.
 
Back
Top Bottom