Single long pull = Best method? New experiment results.

[q21q21]

So I am aware that this experiment is far from conclusive, though the results are very intriguing and contrary to how I've been extracting for YEARS.

Anyway, here is the experiment:

~200mg of white DMT (naptha pulled) and a couple TBSP of vinegar are mixed

An unmeasured amount of NaOH solution is added until adding more does not increase the cloudiness of the liquid.

Some naptha is added and the bottle is sat in a water bath of 70-80C

With periodic mixing and maintaining the bath's temperature, the cloudiness of the bottom layer gradually decreases. At 37 minutes the solution is finally mostly transparent.

The naptha is separated to and a few TBSP of vinegar is added. The naptha clouds immediately.

With periodic shaking, the naptha takes 45 minutes to become mostly transpearent.

Conclusion:
In an isolated A/B/A extraction of DMT it takes significantly over 30 minutes to dissolve all the the particulates DMT from a polar liquid to non-polar liquid and vice versa. But it does seem to take only one pull.
This flies in the face of both the tek I wrote and many others which suggest several pulls of between 3 and 20 minutes based on the tek.

I am currently out of MHRB so I cannot test this in a full tek, but in an A/B with several boils to get all the DMT from your bark, I would predict the results would be very similar.

I will have the yield of the DMT salted from the naptha and a second pull on another day, I already did a similar experiment with salting though and I got bupkis from the second pull.

Anyway, I am no chemist or anything so if I am dead wrong on my experiment or by assuming the results will carry to a full extraction, I'd love to hear some of your thoughts

 

[DrSeltsam]

Great to see people experimenting!

There is a good reason why one does more than one extraction step usually and it is called Nernst's distribution law. Usually, there is a equilibrium in distribution of what you want to extract between the two solvents. This means that after and sufficiently long time, the concentration of e.g. DMT in the NPS (naptha) and the PS (H_2O+vinegar/NaOH) will not change any more. Usually some of the chemical you want to extract will stay either solvent and ideally more in the solvent you want to extract to.

I have done an experiment where I pulled Mescaline with H_2O/HCl from d-limonene and I evaporated every single pull (no problem with an induction stove). These were the results:

1. pull: 179 mg
2. pull: 109 mg
3. pull: 52 mg

This is a classic exponential decay you would expect with these kind of extractions.

What does this mean for you?

I think the distribution coefficients of freebase DMT between naptha and H2_0+NaOH (even more polar than just H2O due to the NaOH) is just very much in favour of pushing the DMT to the naptha, probably also due to the heat you apply. The fact that you get emulsions also plays a role as you have a lot of time to reach the equilibrium and a HUGE surface area due to the droplets. In the next step, you have the same thing in reverse - again very lucky.

I am not sure if the results would carry over to a full extraction. In the full extraction you do not have a clean solution as you have it in your experiment. The plat matter might change a lot

If you want to test, just treat the pulls separately and you have your proof. Knowledge of chemistry often only gives you a way to think of experiments - the proof of the pudding is still in the eating.

 

[syberdelic]

From my experience, when pulling from plant material, multiple pulls are absolutely necessary. But when doing a clean up where you are starting from material that is over 50%, a single pull will be sufficient.

 

[q21q21]

I luckily had the forethought to keep the 3-times-boiled MHRB and I am making a tea that I will split up for experimentation. I hope the yields are enough to measure difference in pulls.

I have an idea of what the experiment might be, but I'm not sure if it is exactly what would be needed to test this theory.

The following is my first instinct:

Brew 1 will be basified with NaOH and pulled with a single 45 minute pull

Brew 2 will be basified with NaOH and then pulled with 3x 5 minute pulls at 15, 30 and 45 minutes.

I suppose that although there are many things that could be measured, but I think that if the yield from brew 1's pull is equal or greater than the pulls from brew 2 then I would be convinced that it is the better method.