anybody else notice this? i wonder if elfdust is metabolized to melatonin so that it will make you sleepy. this would actually be a quite good mechanism of the body to induce sleep after a tiring procedure for the body to replenish its strength and for the mind to work through the experience.
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sleepyness and a hard time of getting out of bed after smoking elfdust in the eve
- Thread starter lorax
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SWIM notices this all the time with smoked DMT, but not oral DMT. Shortly after smoking DMT SWIM always feels like he’s had a mega-dose of melatonin. This is the one DMT side effect SWIM hates. The only way to get rid of the feeling is to drink coffee.
my friend always finds this effect quite nice because he doesn't do it during the day anyways.. he usually does it when he has nothing else to do here in this world. at first he feels very awake and clean and then all of a sudden wham.. it puts him to sleep. this would make dmt the perfect jetlag medicine 
this winter also doesnt make things much easier to wake up.. I spend long time rolling around in bed fighting with the idea of getting up, with the cold outside
MagikVenom
Rising Star
Endlessness
I hear you WINTER SUCKS 20years in Fla. I have moved back home "VA." to the Grey Death 0f bare tree branches. Cold temps it has not snowed here the 3 years ive been back.Just rains Ive been back just weeks of raim mud ice. Also the damn time change. Darkness at 4.15pm. I dont see the light of day. I go to work in the dark. I leave work in the dark. It makese me feel like why would some one live here! I moved back to this area to live with my aging father. I told him yeare ago he will never have to live in a retirement home for the elderly at least he wants to. Just as long I m still alive. I am happy to help out my farher. I was angry at my parents in my teens ans twenties. Now I know they did the best they could, My mother has been gone since 1990. Smoking cigs will kill you. I quit 3 years ago howevre my 2 brothers smoke I haver mo doubt lung cancer will kill at lest 1 if not all three of us.
I HATE THIS DAMN WINTER as well as this area. Hurry up spring!
M.V>
I hear you WINTER SUCKS 20years in Fla. I have moved back home "VA." to the Grey Death 0f bare tree branches. Cold temps it has not snowed here the 3 years ive been back.Just rains Ive been back just weeks of raim mud ice. Also the damn time change. Darkness at 4.15pm. I dont see the light of day. I go to work in the dark. I leave work in the dark. It makese me feel like why would some one live here! I moved back to this area to live with my aging father. I told him yeare ago he will never have to live in a retirement home for the elderly at least he wants to. Just as long I m still alive. I am happy to help out my farher. I was angry at my parents in my teens ans twenties. Now I know they did the best they could, My mother has been gone since 1990. Smoking cigs will kill you. I quit 3 years ago howevre my 2 brothers smoke I haver mo doubt lung cancer will kill at lest 1 if not all three of us.
I HATE THIS DAMN WINTER as well as this area. Hurry up spring!
M.V>
DMT is not metabolized to melatonin. This is not a feasible metabolic reaction. The metabolism of DMT is fairly well characterized there are several end products however none result in melatonin production. Only a small amount end up in tryptamine, in which case of the tryp only a small amount would be converted to 5-HT and this process is regulated, as well as the conversion of 5-HT to melatonin is highly regulated. Also Strassman looked at melatonin levels after DMT admin and found no changes. There are likely other reasons for you feeling tired after use. SWIM has not heard of this in others and many people SWIM knows feel rather stimulated after spice. Although SWIM certainly believes you but as with all things it is likely to have different effects in different people. Also the time of day likely plays a role, in effects.
The serotonin receptors, activated by DMT cause a decrease in serotonergic activity. It is a well known response of the body to, rather quickly increase the amount of receptors when there is a shortage of a substance or a certain type of activity. I've also read somewhere that the use of some tryptamines, although i don't exactly remember wich, maybe it was ayahuasca, cause a temporaray increase of some serotonin receptors. It may be that these receptors are increased by DMT and that these are the same receptors melatonin acts upon. It would mean that remporarily, sensitivity to melatonin is increased.
However it works, for SWIM the aftereffects of DMT are always exactly the same as taking several melatonin pills. It doesn't matter what time of day SWIM takes it. He always gets a strong melatonin aftereffect. So he now always drinks coffee afterwards.
Note that ayahuasca doesn’t cause this, only smoked DMT causes this in SWIM.
Note that ayahuasca doesn’t cause this, only smoked DMT causes this in SWIM.
polytrip said:
Melatonin acts on melatonin receptors. There have been two melatonin receptors that have been characterized. 5-HT also regulates sleep wake cycle and this more direct effect is likely to be responsible for the sleepiness than anything having to do with melatonin. Ayahuasca does increase platelet 5-HT re-uptake transporters, making less 5-HT in the peripheral circulation. If this occurs in the brain (it is not known) it would mean 5-HT is metabolized faster. Many HA compounds (although maybe not DMT) lead to a inactivation of 5-HT2a receptors after stimulation, thus decreasing the 5-HT activity this is how tolerance develops. If what you were saying was correct then the opposite effect to tolerance would occur. The response would be enhanced. with increased multiple admin This is not true, with DMT it likely just remains the same, or other receptors are involved (TAAR) with other HA tolerance develops because less receptors are available.
Also I am not sure where you are saying the 5-HT is decreased, I assume you mean from the raphe nuclei. However it has been shown that many HA actually lead to increased 5-HT levels in the frontal cortex. This raphe view is the very old view of HA actions and PEA HA do not do this thus it is not likely to be responsible for the HA effects. It is mediated by 5-HT1a auto receptors. Additionally even if 5-HT was decreased the receptors are still being activation by the HA as they are 5-HT2a agonists and thus the receptors would not be up-regulated.
How the psycho active tryptamines work exactly is a mystery, but one theory is that activation of the 5-HT2A receptors you describe, not in the brainstam but the neo cortex, leads to acute downregulation of those very same receptors (read this in the january 2008 scientific american mind magazine).
You say ayahuasca leads to higher serotonin levels in the blood. It is also my experience that aya doesn't causse sleepiness and DMT does.
This makes it more likely that the DOWNregulation of serotonin-2A
receptors has something to do with the sleepiness, rather than an increase of serotonergic activity. Serotonin is very much involved with sleep and other cycles. Serotonin and melatonin are both tryptamines and part of the same tryptamine system, both produced in the pineal gland, etc. That DMT causses a 'melatonin-feeling' afterwards, that i can affirm as well from my own personal experience, i think therefore, has very likely to do with it's effect on those very serotonin-2A receptors. How this receptors relate to melatonin itself i don't know, but the activity they're involved in is closer related to melatonin than any other receptor system, DMT acts upon.
You say ayahuasca leads to higher serotonin levels in the blood. It is also my experience that aya doesn't causse sleepiness and DMT does.
This makes it more likely that the DOWNregulation of serotonin-2A
receptors has something to do with the sleepiness, rather than an increase of serotonergic activity. Serotonin is very much involved with sleep and other cycles. Serotonin and melatonin are both tryptamines and part of the same tryptamine system, both produced in the pineal gland, etc. That DMT causses a 'melatonin-feeling' afterwards, that i can affirm as well from my own personal experience, i think therefore, has very likely to do with it's effect on those very serotonin-2A receptors. How this receptors relate to melatonin itself i don't know, but the activity they're involved in is closer related to melatonin than any other receptor system, DMT acts upon.
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