Slow-wave sleep induced in cats by extremely small amounts of synthetic and pineal vasotocin injecte

[dreamer042]

S. Pavel, D. Psatta, R. Goldstein, Slow-wave sleep induced in cats by extremely small amounts of synthetic and pineal vasotocin injected into the third ventricle of the brain, Brain Research Bulletin, Volume 2, Issue 4, July–August 1977, Pages 251-254, ISSN 0361-9230, Redirecting.
(http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0361923077900806)
Keywords: Pineal vasotocin; Third ventricle; Slow-wave sleep; Paradoxical sleep

 

[zombicyckel]

Disgusting, some of these scientist have no respect at all for the loving beings they experiment on. Like the ones who gave lsd to a cat, I would love to meet those folks to say the least...

 

[hixidom]

I'm not sure I would call cats "loving beings"... and somehow I have 3 cats. Maybe cats aren't seen as domestic animals in Romania, which is where the study took place. It's all relative, and all life is an experiment. What is life anyway? How can we answer such questions without harming a few animals in the process? You have to crack eggs to make an omelet. That's why God creates hurricanes: He needs souls for his omelets.

Okay: :!: :thumb_dow
Thumbs downing my own post for containing too many horrible thoughts in a row.

 

[zombicyckel]

I'm not sure I would call cats "loving beings"... and somehow I have 3 cats. Maybe cats aren't seen as domestic animals in Romania, which is where the study took place. It's all relative, and all life is an experiment. What is life anyway? How can we answer such questions without harming a few animals in the process? You have to crack eggs to make an omelet. That's why God creates hurricanes: He needs souls for his omelets.

Okay: :!: :thumb_dow
Thumbs downing my own post for containing too many horrible thoughts in a row.

I dont even know where to begin... If you havnt been able to see that in them, then you are probably dont give them any affection and not gotten to know them.

In my case, I have a old cat, 15 years old and another one I had for 9 years. He has more love and integrity then I could ever hope to have, I walk around with him everyday around my neighborhood, and in the woods. Folks look at me like a freak, but I know better then to trust people judgement. The joy he has given me, has been enough to make my life complete.

And if somebody came and experimented on him to crack a few omelets as you put it, I would fuck them up for life and anyone who condone of what they did. And im really sad those cats didnt have any proctection against against those scientist. Just helpless and scared, and then experiemented on. I just wish the fucking assholes will get what they have coming for them some day.

And this kind of sharing of such articles just makes it worse, and make more scientist think its okay, and will lead to more experiments that only gets worse and worse. Fucking disease mindset, the end justify the means hu? Well if you got the option of either, have your closest relative die vs 2 strangers live. Then im pretty sure youd choose your closest relative/friend live. I guess its easier to torment beings that cant do anything.

To say the least im disapointed by this welcoming/exploration of these kind of experiments, I just hope those who condone of these inhumane experiments get fucked up next time they trip and taught a lesson in compassion.

Go ahead and bann me or whatever, I dont care..

 

[dreamer042]

I didn't see you get all up in arms about them finding dmt in rat pineals.

These cats simply had an injection, I'm sure you take your cats to the vet for injections frequently, yes? The cats just fell asleep, it doesn't appear they were harmed in any way.

What about the bovine they extracted the AVT from, I don't see you worried about that?

At least read the study before you sound the battle cry. :roll:

 

[hixidom]

If I had to choose between the life of 1 relative vs. that of 2 strangers... well that's a hard decision. But the lives of nonhuman animals vs. those of uncountable humans who will be saved by medical discoveries... that is not that hard of a decision for me. That is because I think that, on the spectrum of consciousness and intelligence, animals such as cats probably fall closer to plants than they do to humans (not that the consciousness of humans is really that powerful). But that is merely a subjective preference. Humanity aside, I like to think that I hold all life to the same level of esteem; meaning that I would argue that (at least objectively) the life and consciousness of a human is as meaningful as that of a rock. That is not to say that I am not subjectively more empathetic toward the needs of humans.

Anyways, as rocks, sticks, and cats are tools to us, we are also tools of a higher power. The only difference is that cats are somehow lower on the chain of puppetry than we are. Our lives are also an experiment, and sometimes that experiment goes horribly "wrong", as we have all witnessed. C'est la vie.

In my offense, my cats are only 2-3 years old, and I probably don't spend enough time with them, as you say. On the other hand, even if I did get to know my cats better somehow, it is not my place to endow their lives with meaning. If cats give their own lives meaning, then such meaning cannot be subdued by inhumane treatment. If anything, hardship enhances the meaning of one's life. Anyways, I love my cats, but love is also meaningless. It is only an attachment and affection that I have for my cats. It does not make either of our lives more important from an objective standpoint. That we are alive and together is arbitrary if not altogether absurd.

EDIT: And, regarding the study, there ARE regulations regarding the humane treatment of animals in such cases. Perhaps these regulations in Romania are not as highly regarded as they are where we live. Anyways, the powers that be seem to think that experiments on animals (even ones that are largely invasive) can be done in a humane manner. I would like to think that this is the case, but who knows? I certainly haven't looked into it.

 

[zombicyckel]

I didn't see you get all up in arms about them finding dmt in rat pineals.

These cats simply had an injection, I'm sure you take your cats to the vet for injections frequently, yes? The cats just fell asleep, it doesn't appear they were harmed in any way.

What about the bovine they extracted the AVT from, I don't see you worried about that?

At least read the study before you sound the battle cry. :roll:

Well, first off. The rat testing, its also disgusting. They are also loving beings. Second. I didnt know rats were experimented on in order to find dmt. Also the world doesnt need dmt, and we surely doesnt need it to test on other innocent beings. I sure know I could be without psychedelics if they need to torment other innocent animals for our progress. Like we havnt already done enough damage. I dont even know what bovine/atv is. Simply an injection hu? From what I read(granted only read a few lines) they put a got damn needle into his/her brain. And what the fuck makes that right? They just raped his/her rights as a living being.

And why the fuck would I be intrested in reading some gargabe where they use an innocent being.

Yeah, maybe you went to school and so forth, and has grown up with the idea that its okey to fuck up innocent beings for our benefit. Maybe somewhere along the line, that part of feeling anything has just died because otherwise you wouldnt be able to do your study. And this is where integrity comes in. Either quit while you can, or become the person who does those things.



Edit:

Alright, im disgusted enough. and hixidom I stopped reading when you compared cats to plants. I seriously hope your mind will decend into madness one day. Im done talking.

 

[hixidom]

So you didn't read the parts where I attempt to convey humility...

Anyways, I'm really sorry for offending you zombicyckel. I guess my posts were a bit inflamatory (especially the first one, as I myself admitted). I really do like cats and tend to feel an emotional connection with all animals (and sometimes inanimate objects). I guess I was just trying to be the devil's advocate in that regard. If it makes you feel any better, my mind already has descended into madness on several occasions.

Sorry for taking your thread down that road, Dreamer. I'll try to read the paper tomorrow so that I can actually make a relevant comment.

 

[dreamer042]

@Zombi

I've already made it clear to you I only posted this article as a favor to another nexus member who was interested in reading it.

This was not intended for you, if you don't want to read about animal studies, then don't!

There is no reason to fly off the handle and create a bunch of drama about it in my thread. I especially did not appreciate you coming into the chat accusing me of being some kind of inhuman monster in favor of animal torture because I posted a research article.

You are entitled to your opinion, but your actions are extremely uncalled for. Go out and petition against animal cruelty if you feel so strongly, but please stop with the personal attacks. Show some integrity yourself my friend. :thumb_dow

 

[SpartanII]

And if somebody came and experimented on him to crack a few omelets as you put it, I would fuck them up for life and anyone who condone of what they did.

I just wish the fucking assholes will get what they have coming for them some day.

Fucking disease mindset, the end justify the means hu?

I just hope those who condone of these inhumane experiments get fucked up next time they trip and taught a lesson in compassion.

And what the fuck makes that right?

And why the fuck would I be intrested in reading some gargabe where they use an innocent being.

Yeah, maybe you went to school and so forth, and has grown up with the idea that its okey to fuck up innocent beings for our benefit.

Even though I agree with your point of view about cats and rats as loving beings, you really don't have to use such vulgar words to express it.

Excessive swearing and wishing suffering on other people reflects poorly on your emotional/spiritual maturity, and it goes against the Attitude of this community. You've been here long enough to know better.

Sure, animal testing can be cruel, but it's a huge drain of your emotional energy to get so upset. It's better to channel that energy into something constructive.

"Energy Flows Where Attention Goes" -Hawaiian Huna Principle

 

[Global]

These cats weren't getting high or "fucked up" as you put it. They were simply coaxed into a different stage of sleep. They seem to have been neither harmed nor killed. Everything should be kept in contextual perspective and not just lumped under all "animal experiments are bad". Since you didn't take the time to read all of hixidom's post, I won't take the time to revisit this thread to see your thoughts either :?

 

[Vodsel]

I seriously hope your mind will decend into madness one day.

You're crossing a dangerous line here. I suggest you to take a deep breath before you post anything again regarding this matter.

 

[Infundibulum]

Disgusting, some of these scientist have no respect at all for the loving beings they experiment on. Like the ones who gave lsd to a cat, I would love to meet those folks to say the least...

This is not a thread to discuss the ethics of vivisection. There are numerous arguments for and against vivisection.

Also, regardless of how angry some things can make you in life, please refrain from using that particular tone in the forum and consider it as a warning. There are millions of things that can enrage each one of us on a daily basis and if I search a bit I can find a million more. Coming here and spewing abuse and foul language is not exactly how we run this place.

 

[zombicyckel]

Well, had a good night sleep and looking back. My anger wasnt misplaced. And yeah, maybe I missed some good posts ignoring you people have love, but I cant for the life of me understand how that sort of thing is even worth a defense. Seeing the responses in this thread and lack of people not saying its wrong, the picture is clear, i dont belong at all at this forum.

And dreamer, sure you was doing it for a friend. But when one starts to use words as intresting in relation to such experimentation, tells a story as to why scientist do these things, and why it is encouraged and will continure to be that way. And yeah, signing a petition wont do anything to change how scientist use animals like some sort of lifeless beings. Only thing I know I can do, is to stop it when I see it with my own eyes. And going rage online wont do a bit of diffrence.

I would love to say, I was wrong and and im the bad guy here. It doesnt change the fact that you do condone and defend this sort of experimentation. Sure maybe you and the other folks in this thread arent happy about it either, but you gave it a defence and had intrest in the results. To me this is just as bad as the person who did it. Because it gives the incentive its the right thing to do, and should continue to be like that.

And thats something I cant tolerate.

This sort of experimentation is unforgivable from my point of view and its beyond me how anybody can find it intresting and worth defending. This sort of defending against those sort of experiments is exactly why scientist tested lsd on cats. Cant imagine how scared and helpless the poor fellow was, utterly without mercy and compassion was those scientist.

But the fact this article is still here, and the message it sends to other scientist is enough for me to leave this forum.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

sometimes..

things aren't as nice as i would like them to be...

and that makes me sad

 

[SpartanII]

Well, had a good night sleep and looking back. My anger wasnt misplaced. And yeah, maybe I missed some good posts ignoring you people have love, but I cant for the life of me understand how that sort of thing is even worth a defense. Seeing the responses in this thread and lack of people not saying its wrong, the picture is clear, i dont belong at all at this forum.

And dreamer, sure you was doing it for a friend. But when one starts to use words as intresting in relation to such experimentation, tells a story as to why scientist do these things, and why it is encouraged and will continure to be that way. And yeah, signing a petition wont do anything to change how scientist use animals like some sort of lifeless beings. Only thing I know I can do, is to stop it when I see it with my own eyes. And going rage online wont do a bit of diffrence.

I would love to say, I was wrong and and im the bad guy here. It doesnt change the fact that you do condone and defend this sort of experimentation. Sure maybe you and the other folks in this thread arent happy about it either, but you gave it a defence and had intrest in the results. To me this is just as bad as the person who did it. Because it gives the incentive its the right thing to do, and should continue to be like that.

And thats something I cant tolerate.

This sort of experimentation is unforgivable from my point of view and its beyond me how anybody can find it intresting and worth defending. This sort of defending against those sort of experiments is exactly why scientist tested lsd on cats. Cant imagine how scared and helpless the poor fellow was, utterly without mercy and compassion was those scientist.

But the fact this article is still here, and the message it sends to other scientist is enough for me to leave this forum.

Wow. You completely missed the point.

There are a lot of members here with a lot of different points of view. I even agreed with yours!:surprised

It's your foul language and tone that most people were disagreeing with.

 

[dreamer042]

I'm glad you have chosen to approach this matter in a more respectful and rational way. Maybe now we can have an adult dialogue about this subject, which I remind you I have been trying like hell to avoid from the beginning.

I never did actually say one way or the other what my stance is on animal testing, but I guess I should go ahead and clarify that. I was a strict "vegan" for 8 years, had you caught me a couple years back I would have championed your "all animal testing is bad!" mentality. Having had a bit of time to mature and educate myself and having built myself a good foundation in the sciences, now I can see the purpose of it more clearly.

Things are never so black and white. Animal testing has allowed us to understand many things and save many lives, both human and animal; sometimes it helps to see the bigger picture. As with everything else in life, there are infinite shades of grey here. Let's take for example the infamous Little Albert experiment of the 1920's, that was truly a cruel and inhumane experiment involving an innocent child, no one can justify the way that child was treated, but it did teach us a lot about exactly how conditioning works and is a very valuable study that has immensely helped us increase our understanding of the behavioral sciences.

These days there are very strict rules for what any scientist can and cannot do to the subjects of their study, be they human or animal. There are institutional review boards and ethics committees, this is a huge issue in the sciences and one that is taken very seriously.

In many of these studies the animals are not really harmed at all, I mean in this example the cats got an injection in the brain. You know the brain doesn't feel any pain right? You know these cats were not made to suffer at all? They simply got a little prick in the head (much like your vet does to their skin when you take them in for their vaccinations) and fell asleep in a box. Hardly "raping his/her rights as a living being." All those cats very likely went on to live happy healthy lives.

It's great you are passionate about animal rights! You may not believe it but I am also a strong advocate for animal rights. I make conscious choices with my dollars and go out of my way to make sure I am doing my very best not to support cruel and unethical practices toward any form of life. You should take that passion and you should focus it toward something that makes more of a difference, like say educating people about alternatives to factory farming or bringing human rights to the slaves of the third world who built the electronic device on which you are now reading this post.

I wouldn't say this forum is not for you because you don't agree with a single post on it. This is a section of the forum dedicated to science and scientific research. Like it or not animal testing is a reality of scientific research, so perhaps this section of the forum is not for you. Though honestly you may find your particular views on this issue better received on a forum dedicated to animal rights as this forum is very heavily entrenched in the sciences. I do reserve the right to post scientific research in the science section of a science based forum as that is exactly what it is for.

This really isn't the place for this particular discussion and I think if you want to bring this issue up with the nexus community you should start your own thread in a more appropriate section. I do hope you will see that I have not personally (intentionally) harmed anyone and that by simply posting scientific research I am neither condoning nor dispousing the methods of the researchers, merely sharing information. For what it's worth, if I was given the choice to perform an experiment on animals, I would most likely decline it.

May all beings be liberated from the wheel of suffering and death. ♥