Sober Ego Loss

[Beelzebozo]

Okay, so the reason I'm making this thread is because I want to put a potential experience out there, one that I suspect many people don't even know is an option.

Let's start out with what is meant by "ego." This is a tricky one, because, the deeper one investigates, the more one discovers that there really isn't an "ego," just thoughts and sensations happening freely. But, if I had to define it, I would say it is sort of a "smoke and mirrors" kind of a thing. It is the "you" that you think is the cumulative result of all your experience until now, the "you" who is apparently "thinking thoughts" and "living life." This really isn't anything, it's like a trick of the light, an illusory experience.

I won't get into the spiritual mumbo jumbo of the "real you" and "your true nature" and all that. In my experience, there's no way to language it. Absolutely none. So all description is poetry at best and misleading and confusing at worst. (That said, I'm sure I'll contradict myself and say it's this or that at some point. )

Okay, so now that that's out of the way, what am I actually talking about? Well, the paradoxical part is that I can't really talk about it. Please take anything I type very lightly, it's all about the wordless direction that you might be pointed in rather than descriptions of "states" and "experiences."

If one sits down in a quiet place and relaxes all sense of "doing," of any interference with thoughts or sensations, one slowly begins to gravitate towards what I've termed "ego loss." But you have to understand, it's the opposite of "getting somewhere" or "trying to. . . ." Thoughts will come up, just see that the need to "stop them" or "turn them off" is a thought too.

It can help at this point, in order to get the mental chatter to quiet down, to look around the physical room (not your memory/mind's eye!) for everything that has ever happened to you. Look around your immediate surroundings for the past and the future, for "yesterday" or a "minute ago" or "tomorrow" or a "minute from now." If you're really sincere about this, it can be a serious shock. Just notice how the body exists only here and now, the arms are in the exact position they're in, the head is tilted the way it is, and your thoughts are appearing the way they are. Not kind of or sort of, but exactly, precisely this.

Now, at this point, I find it's helpful to close the eyes. "Ego loss" may begin to happen quite naturally. But I'll assume that it doesn't. The way to get the ball rolling, in my experience, is to look for the "I" who is looking. Who's looking out of these eyes right now? Where is your center? Try and find it! Which sensation or thought is "you?" Go through each one that feels like that's "really you." Of course, none of them are. It's like surrendering up your innermost, most intimate, private sanctum. You have to be ruthless and determined, almost like you're willing to die forever and ever (though of course you won't). As in, "Okay, okay, I'll go."

It's like however your body is positioned, especially your face and head, that becomes the "I" identity's place of refuge, and as you surrender it, it begins to melt. But it's tricky because "you" keep identifying and distracting this process by thinking of other things or attaching to a new posture. As I say, you have to be ruthless. Surrender again and again and again.

To put it bluntly, basically "you" are giving up "you," you are letting yourself dissolve.

When this starts to happen, I predict that very strange sensations will begin to arise, like powerful pressure on the forehead and face, perhaps strange vibrations and bodily awareness, and most likely your heart rate will jump as well. This is something that you might have to dip back into again and again to get used to and work through the resistance/fear. Let me assure you though that it starts to become a beautiful, incredible experience as you open up to it.

You may even have sensations that are almost identical to psychedelic states.

. . .

Anyway, I wanted to put this out here because I think it is an indispensable counterpart to psychedelic exploration and "just sitting" meditation. "Just sitting" is important too, but this is where the real gains (actually losses :lol: ) are made, I feel.

I would encourage everyone to give this a try and see what happens. (A little help, if you know what I mean, might not hurt either, if anyone has a really hard time with this. . . )

 

[hixidom]

I'd like to go one step further and postulate that we don't have to "just sit" to attain this state. When I feel what you call ego loss, I feel as though I'm stepping out of my life and identity, and seeing myself in third person perspective as I would see a character in a movie, only for once I can take my eyes off the screen and look around the theatre. After a while I may leave the theatre entirely and stretch my mental legs a bit. Eventually I obtain a firm grasp on who this third person actually is, and then it becomes possible to take yet another step back from my identity and actions. I feel that the more times I step out of myself, the closer to eternity/god/egolossness I become. Anyways, my point is that I see no need for the original movie character to be sitting as opposed to doing what he would normally do, though I guess ritual always makes meditative practices easier.

 

[Beelzebozo]

I'd like to go one step further and postulate that we don't have to "just sit" to attain this state. When I feel what you call ego loss, I feel as though I'm stepping out of my life and identity, and seeing myself in third person perspective as I would see a character in a movie, only for once I can take my eyes off the screen and look around the theatre. After a while I may leave the theatre entirely and stretch my mental legs a bit. Eventually I obtain a firm grasp on who this third person actually is, and then it becomes possible to take yet another step back from my identity and actions. I feel that the more times I step out of myself, the closer to eternity/god/egolossness I become. Anyways, my point is that I see no need for the original movie character to be sitting as opposed to doing what he would normally do, though I guess ritual always makes meditative practices easier.

Very well put.

Yes, being "no one" is possible anywhere and at any time, I agree. (The languaging of these things is so preposterous. . . .) I pitched it the way I did because this is the way I originally came to catch a glimpse of it.

And yup, it gets deeper every time. . . . Sometimes it gets so deep that everything is perfectly ordinary and suddenly. . . WOW, this is it too! 8)

Peace.

 

[cyb]

Beelzebozo

What an amazing post to wake up to...:shock:

I've never tried to quiet the chatter but after reading such an amazing explanation, I may just go sit somewhere..
Thanks
:thumb_up:

 

[WarriorSage]

Awesome write! Thanks!
Many things can be achieved with these techniques that you've explained so well


I try my best to even live by silent thought,

"But to have a pure mind one must have no reaction at all, one should react neither to a person’s loveliness, or their darkness. One has to be neutral and wish everybody well and of course any rancor or spite is out of the question.

After a few days of my new discipline I found how clean my mind was becoming and how I was disconnecting more and more from the global Matrix of control and people’s dysfunction and pain. I offer a silent love and redemption to everyone I pass in the street or elsewhere, no matter who they are. This action seems to liberate one, it feels so light.

There is a perfection in its simplicity so that is why I believe a pure mind heals you, it restores the broken symmetries of your body and soul"

 

[daedaloops]

Thank you so much for writing this Beezlebozo, I really appreciate people who try to "teach" these things to other people who might not be so naturally inclined towards non-controlling the mind.

I for one have been struggling (lol) with this for a while, I've been listening to Alan Watts and other "enlightened gurus" and reading about different meditation techniques and it's like.. thanks to psychedelics I know what you people are talking about but I can't for the life of me figure out how to get (or not get) there in a sober state. Sure normal meditation alone is very useful where you just relax and quiet your mind for a while, and I do that, but from reading all these things it's pretty obvious that people CAN reach states similar to psychedelic states.. where atleast one common element is that there is the quite scary vibrational transition phase and then your awareness is not centralized to your body anymore. So in a way you have to naturally induce the feeling of death, instead of having psychedelics come and trash around your house and forcefully strangle you to death. So, it's hard, but is it hard only because I think it's hard? If so, then how do I reverse that assumption? Yeah I know.. next you're probably gonna say that I'm trying too hard, but if I wouldn't try then I wouldn't even know these states exist.. So it's like I have to try and not try simultaneously. Or maybe I'm just introducing too much logic into something that's very simple.

But I truly believe that because there's so many personalities and chemical wirings in the world, that some people just happen to be more adequate at following the mental cues and being able to let go of oneself. So, altho some people say that anyone can experience these states at anytime they want, they probably just say that based on their own experience where it happens to be easier for them.

So I really really appreciate these sort of guides where they try to explain the process. I mean you people always say that you can't put the "state" into words and I totally understand that, but you CAN try to explain all the things leading to the state. Like concepts to recognize the mental cues, use some helpful metaphors, describe the transitional feelings, tips and trick, etc.. And it does really help. And your text had some really good stuff like the ego being "a trick of the light" and "try and find it!", so when you're searching for your ego it's like you're chasing around your own tail. And like when you say "Okay, okay, I'll go." that's very good to describe the feeling of accepting your death.

The thing is I have reached some kind of vibrational states, or it was more like synchronized body chills combined with vibrations and the feeling of falling, but it's scary as hell when there isn't that psychedelic to keep forcefully pushing you further. And I can't even remember what I did to induce those vibrational states, so everytime it's like starting from scratch. But from what I read , I guess it should get easier to memorize the mental cues and such.

And, now someone might ask "Why don't you stick to psychedelics then if that works for you?". Well, yeah, but there's just something special about knowing that it would be naturally induced and you could do it whenever and wherever you want, even if your drug stash is empty. And because our society has the views on drugs that it has and legalization is still kinda far away, this would be a really good way to introduce people to these states. Usually their biggest problem is that "I'm not taking any dirty drugs." but with this they couldn't really make any excuses, it's pure, it's natural. The hard part just is, like we see here, that it's very hard to explain or teach the process with human words. But I think, the more people can teach these to other people, the more the vocabulary and the tips accumulate, and maybe eventually there will be some sort of step-by-step guides.. Maybe even with technological assistance, I do think it's possible and even probable, maybe even inevitable.

Anyways now I'm ranting .. so just thank you for this text, you are helping me and probably alot of other people to work on our egos even when we are sober, hopefully one day also experiencing these ineffable states and eventually teaching them to others.



edit: as a convenient synch, right after reading this there was this video in my youtube suggestions. I don't know much about this guy yet but that just made a hell of a lot of sense to me.. I think my problem is that I don't think it's sexy enough. Psychedelics are sexy, hallucinations are sexy, insanity is sexy, but when you have to just let go and die it's not that sexy. I think I might be too young for this still. But luckily I'm getting older all the time.

 

[Beelzebozo]

You're welcome everyone, glad it was thought provoking (or the opposite).

First off, just wanted to give my own background. The first time I ever sat down to meditate, about a year and a half ago, this started happening to me spontaneously. It scared the living HELL out of me. Thought I was going nuts or that the universe was gonna suck me out of my skin at any moment. Eventually I got the guts to try it again and started meditating regularly. These sorts of experiences started happening every one or two months. And sometimes I would go there during daily life.

I've had a few periods where I've "rolled up the mat" out of frustration, but every time so far, I've returned to sitting and worked through it. Those are some of the most beautiful times, when you say, "The hell with it," but then, grudgingly, go back and dissolve once again.

But I'm not a guru. I thought I was for a little while, but fortunately life has a way of humbling you. I have a lot of things to work through (A LOT), and I question the whole guru game in the first place. Mostly because there are a lot of desperate people out there who cling to an authority figure's every word, and this can become very unhealthy very quickly.

WarriorSage:

I try my best to even live by silent thought,

Beautiful. Life is an amazing (and sometimes ferocious) sandbox to play around in, and daily life is the perfect place to keep putting the blocks together and see how many different ways they'll fit.


Daedaloops (great name by the way, tho I don't know if it's a reference to anything):

You're absolutely right. Every single human being is completely different and comparison can be very stressful and silly. A good way to smash the tendency to compare oneself (especially in the case of "gurus" or "authorities" ) is to see that there's no way to know what anyone else's experience is like. Even if you're standing right next to someone, there's no way to know what it's like to see through their eyes, there's no way to know if they're seeing the same color blue that you are. And even if they describe their experience to you, all that you have to interpret their words is your own experience thus far. You can never get beyond your own experience. Some people take that to the point of solipsism, some people, myself included, are more agnostic.

But either way, every way I look at it, I am alone as the universe I experience. This can be incredibly relaxing. It means I don't have to consider anyone else's beliefs or "shoulds" or "shouldn'ts", no matter what authority they claim to have. No one else can blow my nose for me or scrub my armpits. :d

The thing is I have reached some kind of vibrational states, or it was more like synchronized body chills combined with vibrations and the feeling of falling, but it's scary as hell when there isn't that psychedelic to keep forcefully pushing you further. And I can't even remember what I did to induce those vibrational states, so everytime it's like starting from scratch. But from what I read , I guess it should get easier to memorize the mental cues and such.

I'm there with you. I can't do this on command and there's no map for how to "get there." That's why it's tricky to try and write up a cheat sheet, because it's just something you feel your way into. What you describe (body chills, vibrations, and the feeling of falling) sounds right on the money to me. But, I know for myself, I can't go lusting after those sensations, I have to take time, maybe an hour or more, to slow myself down and then those things start happening spontaneously when I start to focus harder on the "I," my identity.

A great way to slow down is also to place all of your attention on the feeling of the breath passing through your nostrils, in and out, and then every time anything distracts you from it, don't freak out, but patiently return the attention to the breath. . . over and over and over and over and over and over. Try it until the breath becomes the entire universe. THEN look for the "I" who is looking.

Anyway, the reason why I continually stressed that none of it can be put into words is because. . . well, I know what it's like to be seeking so hard that you hang on every word some "guru" or whatever says, and you get totally caught up on the description. As you know, words are not the experiences they point to. In fact, if you take a step back, what's really mind blowing is that language as a whole is a self-contained thing (and it's what the ego is made out of, "memory/language").

Here's a fun experiment. Sit or stand in a room and ask, "What isn't a word?" Watch every time thoughts try to answer it. Thoughts are language, so the nature of the question destroys itself and. . . _________. :lol: :shock:

...

Oh and Adyashanti was one of the speakers I used to listen to a lot a year ago when I first discovered meditation.

My favorites though are Alan Watts, J. Krishnamurti, U. G. Krishnamurti (sometimes :lol: ), and my biggest inspiration (who I steal everything from) Benjamin Smythe. But I've learned to be very careful because it can be easy to fall into the trap of thinking someone else has "found the truth" or "knows the way," which IMO is ridiculous. There is no "way." Obviously we can share, but, as I said before, communication is tricky, and no words can ever really be true.

I'm very happy that I started such a fun thread (if you couldn't tell by my word explosions).

Peace, cheers, and all that!

EDIT:

I want to add one more thing to everything I have said so far. This is sort of the "other side of the coin" to everything above.

While vibrations and intense experiences are incredible, they don't always happen. . . . The truth is that there is no ego, never has been and never will be. There's nothing really to obtain or do in any kind of ultimate, urgent way.

Life, fundamentally is not a problem to be solved or a question to be answered. Language invents the question, so then it's assumed that there must be an answer, and the organism goes looking. But the question is really just nothing. After the search wears you out enough, remember that you can relax without any answers, or knowledge, or realization, or attainment, or special state, or purpose, or path, or understanding, or truth, or experience, or any of it.

It's relaxation for it's own sake, without any cause or reward or justification. But who wants that? :lol:

And that is maybe what some people call enlightenment, I don't know or really care.

Everything, including what we think of as "me," is just happening, even the most personal, seemingly "egoic" stuff, is synonymous with the impersonal movement of "god," being, the universe, the big bang, whatever.

But again, I say this at the same time, paradoxically, as I say, meditation is highly, highly recommended. An hour a day is what I stick to.

 

[Philosopher]

Great post!

 

[Global]

But I truly believe that because there's so many personalities and chemical wirings in the world, that some people just happen to be more adequate at following the mental cues and being able to let go of oneself. So, altho some people say that anyone can experience these states at anytime they want, they probably just say that based on their own experience where it happens to be easier for them.

Well I think that just as with most other activities in life, the notion of "practice" cannot be underestimated. The more you practice the easier it gets. For example, DMT has taught me how to conjure energy through meditation. The more I practice this in meditation, the more easily the energy comes to me when I try again at some later date. Perhaps since releasing thoughts is sort of a thought-process in itself, by repetitively conditioning the ego to an extent where it no longer requires your conscious thought to drop the thought and just starts dropping thought out of habit, conditioning, and auto-suggestion. This goes in line with the OP talking about being relentless.

 

[Skitty]

Thank you for this! Wow, so well put. Right now, I am struggling at some level of this process almost daily. I can get to certain levels, but something very deep within my mind does not want to see the emptiness. I find that I am closest to this in the morning, right as I am waking up. I usually go to sleep listening to Adyashanti, and each morning I try to remain in that paralyzing fear of dissolution just a bit longer than the morning before. I suppose it's kind of like shuffling ever closer to the edge of a cliff, wondering what jumping off of it will feel like.

I have had moments in the middle of the night, a few times, where I wake up and feel "behind" my thoughts, almost as if I can see them projected on a scree before me. All the stuff I usually identify with is just chillen to be impartially observed. It's a weird state. I have never remembered to ask "what is observing these thoughts" from this place, however. Your thread may be just the reminder I needed :d Thanks again for posting this.