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Sodium Carbonate

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OrangeShift

OrangeShift

Rising Star
SWIM was thinking of doing an A/B extraction with Sodium Carbonate as the base, could SWIM use the HTH pool chemicals found at walmart? they list 98% Sodium Carbonate and 2% inert ingrediants, should SWIM worry about that 2% ?
 
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The MSDS says 99.8% sodium carb
either way it's probably fine and worth a try.
I'd have some lye on hand though to bump that pH up to 13 if need be.
That or test a small amount first.
My friend has yet to get a decent yield at 12 and below.
Let us know - this would be a great source if it worked out.
Does your friend have a pH meter?
 
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SWIM extracts at pH 9.5 with sodium carbonate all the time and gets yields that rival those posted by others on this forum. However, SWIM uses a Soxhlet, and SWIM uses DCM as the non-polar solvent. With DCM you don't need any fancy tricks to force the DMT into it because DMT is extremely soluble in DCM, unlike naphtha, heptene, etc.

Those out there who are getting poor yield extracting at pH 9.5 are getting poor yields because they are using heptane, naphtha, or hexane as the non-polar solvent in their A/B extraction. Those solvents are very poor solvents and extractors have developed various tricks over the years to make them work better at extracting DMT such as heating the solvent, bringing the pH up to 13+ with sodium hydroxide, etc.

You really should be using ether, DCM, or chloroform. The truth is that ether, DCM, or chloroform work far better at extracting DMT (and most other alkaloids) at room temperature at pH 9.5 than hot heptane, hot hexane, or hot naphtha at pH 13. Heptane, naphtha, and hexane are just very poor solvents. DMT is almost as soluble in water as it is in heptane, naphtha, and hexane. The XlogP of DMT is very low at 2.0. This means it is better extracted in solvents with similar XlogP’s. Heptane’s XlogP is 4.3! Chloroform is 2.1, almost identical to DMT. It is THE SOLVENT FOR DMT, not heptane.

So many people are doing their extractions wrong. They are using solvents that are not appropriate and so are forced to add heat and use pH ranges that are unbelievably high just because they decided to use an inappropriate solvent.

Here are the XlogP’s of various solvents (remember DMT is 2.0, 5-MeO-DMT is 1.9):

n-Heptane: 4.3
n-Hexane: 3.8
D-Limonene: 3.7
Chloroform: 2.1
Dichloromethane (DCM): 1.5
Ether: 0.9
Ethyl methyl ketone (MEK): 0.4
Isopropyl alcohol (IPA): 0.4
Acetone: 0.2
Alcohol (ethanol): -0.1
Methyl alcohol (Methanol): -0.5
Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO): -0.7

Take a look and you’ll see chloroform, ether, and DCM are all better for extracting DMT than heptane or hexane (naphtha is a generic term for mixtures of low-boiling liquid hydrocarbons and is generally a mixture of pentane, hexane, heptane, octane, etc.). SWIM’s experience shows this is definitely the case. The XlogP info is pretty accurate for this.
 
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Can any of these superior solvents be purchased in the states localy and discretely?

Also what is your ratio of solvent to soup with these solvents?
 
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Yes, chloroform, DCM (dichloromethane, methylene chloride), and ether can all be purchase OTC discretely. The ratio used is the same.

Chloroform and DCM are sold in pint and gallon containers as plastic solvents used for welding plastic. DCM is slowly taking over though. It’s getting harder to find chloroform. Chloroform is often called trichloromethane in the plastics world. These are fairly clean sources with some containing no additives at all. However most contain small amounts of plastic in them to make them more effective as plastic solvents. The plastic can be removed by distilling the DCM out. Just don’t distill it to dryness or the small amount of plastic present will burn. It’s best to use ones that contain no plastics. These are advertised as “thin” or “fast drying”. You want to get it at a plastics supply store, not a hobby supply store which sells them in 1 oz quantities for a fortune.

DCM is also sold for use as paint stripper and varnish remover. These are generally not good OTC sources to use because many contain lots of fillers that are very hard to remove such as polymers and cellulose, but not all of them. Polymers and cellulose make distilling out the DCM a real hassle. Aerosol forms don’t have the polymers or cellulose additives.

Aircraft Remover Aerosol by Klean-Strip contains 75-80 % DCM (methylene chloride), 15-20 % propellant (a mix of propane, butane, isobutane), and 1-4 % methanol, and 1- 5% nonylphenoxypolyethoxyethanol. It contains no polymers or cellulose. The propane, butane, and isobutene quickly evaporate away when you spay the contents out. The methanol and nonylphenoxypolyethoxyethanol are water soluble and can be removed by washing with equal portions of water 3 times. Then you distill the DCM to purify it.

Auto Strip by Klean-Strip contains 70-75% DCM, 5-10% isopropanol, 1-4% methanol, 1-5% ammonia, 1-5% hydroxypropyl methylcellulose. There’s not much cellulose in this product. The isopropanol, methanol and ammonia are water soluble and can be removed by washing with equal portions of water 3 times. It should then be pretty easy to distill the DCM from the hydroxypropyl methylcellulose. Just don’t distill it down completely or the cellulose is going to burn.

Low Odor Aircraft Remover from Klean-Strip is probably the best to use. It contains 80-85% DCM (methylene chloride), 5-10% methanol, and 1-5% ammonia contains. There are no polymers or cellulose present according to the MSDS, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t any. This comes in quart, gallon, and 5 gallon containers. The methanol and ammonia are water soluble and can be removed by washing with equal portions of water 3 times. Then you would distill the DCM to get nearly pure DCM.


Ether is sold as engine starter fluid often mixed with other solvents. Ether is highly flammable. I don’t recommend using this solvent because it is so flammable. DCM is not flammable.

Quick start products ltd has a product called Diesel Starting Fluid. This is 91% ether, 6.5% ethylene, 2% ethyl alcohol, and 1% 2,6-di-tert-butyl-p-cresol. The ethyl alcohol can be removed by washing with equal portions of water 3 times. The ethylene is a gas and will vaporize away. The 2,6-di-tert-butyl-p-cresol can be removed by distilling the ether. Be very careful distilling ether. It is highly flammable and can explode if there are any sparks or flames nearby.
 
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Just curious 69ron,

How do you collect your extracted dmt when using DCM? Because Naptha only holds dmt under certain conditions, I was under the impression that this helps us when it comes to product recovery - ie freeze precip. Can you freeze precip with DCM? Can you recrystallise with DCM? Also, if DCM is a much better solvent than Naptha, won't it pull across more crap?
 
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No you can't freeze precipitate DMT in DCM because it's extremely soluble in DCM even at 0 F.

If you do a proper defat with DCM prior to extracting with DCM it only pulls the alkaloids. Along with the DMT it also pulls good stuff like DMT N-Oxide and “Jungle DMT” which I wouldn’t call crap. That stuff is quite nice and not something you want to get rid of. SWIM likes DMT N-Oxide more than DMT and would hate to lose it in an extraction.

What you do is use DCM to extract ALL the alkaloids first, and then concentrate that down to get a full alkaloid extract. You’ll end up with some DMT crystals and some oil usually which contains a mix of other very interesting alkaloids. Then to isolate the DMT you dissolve the DMT and oil in warm heptane (or naphtha) and mix thoroughly. Only the DMT dissolves in it, the other alkaloids won’t dissolve in it. You pour the heptane in another jar (leaving behind the oily DMT N-Oxide and other goodies) and you put the heptane in the freezer and freeze precipitate pure DMT from it and discard the heptane. This way you have pure DMT, plus you also have DMT N-Oxide oil and other goodies left behind as oil that wouldn’t dissolve in the heptane. This way you get much better yields.

Sometimes all the DMT is present as DMT N-Oxide. If you just extracted with heptane, you’d lose all the DMT N-Oxide (and “Jungle DMT”). That’s a waste of your money.

Ask yourself, do I want to buy mimosa and through away all the DMT N-Oxide and “Jungle DMT”? If the answer is YES, then use heptane, hexane, or naphtha. If the answer is NO, then use DCM, ether, or chloroform.
 
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SWIM's lately having success precipitating dmt and other alkaloids by adding fumarate-saturated acetone in his non-polar solvent. SWIM's using xylene as NP and this works really nicely. SWIM would be interested if one could try the same with DCM, because in this way one knows exactly when all the alkaloids have precipitated out of the NP solvent. The solvent can then be washed with water to drive off any excess fumaric acid and acetone and can THUS be re-used FOR the subsequent pulls.

The fumarate alkaloid salts can be easily freebased - just dissolve them in water and basify...;)
 
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Low Odor Aircraft Remover from Klean-Strip is probably the best to use. It contains 80-85% DCM (methylene chloride), 5-10% methanol, and 1-5% ammonia contains. There are no polymers or cellulose present according to the MSDS, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t any. This comes in quart, gallon, and 5 gallon containers. The methanol and ammonia are water soluble and can be removed by washing with equal portions of water 3 times. Then you would distill the DCM to get nearly pure DCM.
Click to expand...

Would a water wash get it pure enough to use in an extraction? I don't have a still setup and don't plan on getting one, but would like to use DCM.
 
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Just test a batch. If it evaporates completely clear then yes it should be ok after just a water wash.

SWIM knows of one source that is completely pure DCM and alcohol and evaporates without leaving any residue. SWIM’s friends tested it. It comes in a glass bottle and is sold as acrylic solvent. It's called "Craftics Acrylic Solvent Cement" or just "Craftics Solvent Cement". According to their MSDS it contains 85-95% DCM and 5-15% diacetone alcohol. The alcohol is added to slow down the evaporation of the DCM. This is an EXCELLENT OTC source of DCM! The alcohol is fine as is and won’t mess up your extractions so you don't need to remove it, but you can by washing it with water.

This is an extremely pure OTC product. SWIM's friends distilled 1 gallon of this and it left behind a little diacetone alcohol, about 5%. Then the diacetone alcohol was distilled off and it left nothing at all behind.
 
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