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Solvent vapor extraction, just a theory.

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L

leon

aimsiú fhírinne
I thought of this idea after studying steam distillations for essential oils. My hypothesis was that using a very similar lab setup you can do solvent pulls from our bark without having to filter. The idea is to simmer your solvent and let the vapor pass threw the organic matter in a biomass flask, then condense it back into a liquid. I theorize that this setup can be used for both acid/base extractions along with the FASA method by using different catalysts. Right now I will express my thoughts of using the FASA method with this setup. You would first have to soak the organic material in citric acid so most of the compounds will bind to citrate. Once the precursor is dry, place it into the biomass flask and set up the rest of the apparatus. Slowly boil the acetone and let it pass threw the precursor, hopefully the extract should pull better because of vapor pressure. Once it starts condensing let it drip into a pre measured beaker of FASA. You should know what to do with it at that point. I'm sure you all could figure out a way to use this in a STB method. Hopefully more detailed instructions and a more solid pictorial will be out soon. This is a chicken scratch drawing of the setup.
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I hope it can be fully understood what I mean my this post. This apparatus could be used for making many things. Not just demetri. I will continue my research on this concept as long as the concept cant be disproven.
 
benzyme said:
the reason it would work for essential oils is they are volatile.
salts are not.
Click to expand...
You don't think there's any way to treat the precursor safely so it can work? What if you had the vapor transferred downward threw the biomass filter. Kind of like an espresso machine. Does acetone vapor simply not bond with the compounds in bark, even if the bark is pre-treated?
 
io think what benzyme meant is that volatile oils will transfer into a gaseous state with an appropriate solvent and be carreied over in the gas phase, but that salts of molecules are not volatile and thus will not be carried over in the gas phase.

...i think.
 
You're on the right track. Unfortunately I see some pretty big errors here. The main one being what benzyme has said. Think reflux instead of distillation and that is effectively a soxhelet.

This might work for some compounds and solvents. Alkaloids I don't think so.

You're idea to pass the acetone vapor down through the biomass then condense it is interesting. I don't see much of any benefit to doing this verses a water extraction for most plant sources.
 
InMotion said:
You're idea to pass the acetone vapor down through the biomass then condense it is interesting. I don't see much of any benefit to doing this verses a water extraction for most plant sources.
Click to expand...
I think using vapor would require a lot less pulls. Maybe you could push citric IPA vapor down the biomass, condensed into a jar of fasa. Maybe there's a solvent where a type of dmt is soluble in a steam form, and solidified at room temperature.
 
leon said:
I think using vapor would require a lot less pulls.
Click to expand...

actually, liquid phase is more ideal from a practical standpoint, because of the relative proximity of molecules in solvent/solute interactions.
the phase isn't as relevant as solubility, partition coeff. (xlogp,etc.); careful selection of solvent would be a wiser thought exercise, then proceed with various methods known in the art.
 
You might have some luck extracting kavalactones with this setup.

I set up a basic steam distillation on some powdered kava extract in attempt to distill the essential oil.

It worked, and was potent. but not in great yields, an alcoholic extract saved more of the goodies.

I was worried about the heat from the steam destroying the kavalactones, this method looks like it would avoid that problem.
 
New idea, making the alkaloids in the bark into there freebase. then sucking a steaming np solvent threw it Into a cold beaker.
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