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Some thoughts about the absurdity of it all

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Luciapath

Luciapath

Rising Star
So, after thinking about this non-stop and reading practically the whole Nexus I have come to some kind of conclusion:

Hyperspace is absurd.

I mean, what is the point of it all? You would think that it gives you some kind of deeper knowledge about the nature of reality. But the only insights I've had are very simple ones about the importance of karma, kindness, coincidences.. the same insights everyone else has. I've only been in hyperspace once, and I cannot understand why some people here go back weekly or more. After you've been to withinity, is there really any point? It seems to me as though all yoga, meditation, psychedelic drug experiences are on some kind of continuum of hyperspace. A cartoonish undulating, nauseating, profound and occassionally wonderful experience. But what if the complete synasthesia is just a harder version of a mushroom trip rather than a tuning into further dimensions?

And what if it's indeed a portal? Where does the portal lead? The other day I was tripping off mushrooms and all I wanted to do was dance but they made me feel heavy. And so I said to them, ok, what is it you want me to learn now? And they made me understand not to take them so seriously, I'm enjoying them, and they're enjoying me back, it's an exchange.. I got thinking, who exactly am I exchanging with? Is it really entities, aliens, god, or is it just the plants that the chemicals come from? Maybe the only thing we connect with when we take psychedelics are the plants and lifeforms on our planet. And the rest of the universe exists separately and lifelessly alongside. What do you think?

And even if, which is not unlikely, we can learn how to build the perfect society from these molecules, would we want to? What would you do in a perfect society, in perfect bliss? Isn't it boring? I'm sure a lot of art, music and wonderful experiences came out of actual or potential suffering as well. Not to underestimate bliss, I've never been happier than the days after I finished Vipassana, and that felt very similar to the DMT afterglow. But bliss isn't the only positive emotion, not everything to life. I don't know if I would like everybody or myself constantly being blissful. And at the same time, I don't feel right thinking that there should be a token amount of suffering either. I almost feel as though DMT fucked me up a little.

Like I actually did experience all the answers, and they are not "profound" enough. That everything is a bit too selfish, a bit too geared towards me just having to enjoy myself and get over my own suffering. And now it seems as though I lost interest in other things, because of this opinion I have formed that all experiences lead to hyperspace. What is the point of meditating now if I've already experienced the endpoint? Any further exploration would just be an escape from applying the lessons I already know. And at the same time, it seems as though I may have lost my ability to just enjoy a trip now. For example, I remember taking mushrooms as a party drug or as a way to appreciate nature and my company more. But now my brain seems intent on looking at it as a spiritual experience and analysing it. This makes me sad because it almost encourages me to not take psychedelics apart from when I will feel the need for introspection again.

I suppose I wanted to rant, but also to ask the question, why all of you keep going back to hyperspace, whether you feel any progress in your teachings, whether you feel they are unique to you or universal? And also, what you think hyperspace represents - a tuning into an ultimate reality, a tuning into a synasthetic representation of your unconscious, a tuning into the oneness of planet earth, or the oneness of the whole universe - I'm having problems in logically justifying the latter..

Another thing that has been bugging me is the cartoonish nature of the visions on DMT, for some reason I am really disturbed by that. Is it the same for everyone, and on aya as well?

EDIT: There is another thing I wanted to say, and this is actually an issue that makes me think it would be worth taking it again to explore. It seems that the way I dream/sleep changes in the days/weeks after a psychedelic experience, and as well as the increase in coincidences and synergy I experience a lot of deja vus. For example, I dreamt that I was given some creamy honey mixture that I ate in my sleep and it smelled and tasted amazing, and I woke up thinking I wish I could find something like that. Then, when I was in the health food shop today, I decided to buy a new lotion and they had one that looked and smelled exactly the same! Later, I went to buy a skirt, and the girl who sold it to me happened to know all of my best friends (ok, this isn't so amazing since people in the psytrance community in London generally know each other, but still). And just as I was trying on a skirt and top, I got a deja vu about it, which made me decide to actually buy the skirt. I know deja vus are supposed to be just anomalies in brain circuits, I'm wondering how you guys approach them?
 
In my opinion, our brains are currently not able to grok hyperspace. Perhaps we are not evolved enough. It takes shamans and the like a lifetime of dedicated work to understand how to work with it, how to learn from it. But they are far from grokking it. So... I really can't fathom how anyone could think to have "seen enough" after a single journey.
 
Hi Luciapath.

Interesting post youve put up.

You say youve been to 'Hyperspace' once-may I ask did you use the oral route or did you choose to get there via vaporisation?

The Nexus has many people registered here and I think the number of hardcore afficionados who choose to visit these realms frequently with regularity are a minority.I have come across posts here where people who obviously are experienced have stated that they tend to favour the oral route to vaporisation due to the less abrupt transition to these unearthly dimensions.I personally favor vaporisation as the brevity of the experience is a plus for me.But then again I dont use it for spiritual exploration or development.

I became 'fascinated' with LSD and psilocybin and on reflection, back then I did use it for some self-improvement purposes.But there is always a trade-off between the benefits gained and the doses one needs to take to keep getting these benefits.This rendered there ongoing use fairly pointless as I found that tripping alone on doses of 200-300mcg LSD was as much as I was comfortable with,mainly due to the protracted nature of the experience, and taking lesser doses just made me survey the same old ground.

The advantage of DMT both vaporised and orally is how it allows you to go to a place that psilocybin or LSD wouldnt normally take you, and the timeframe is much more manageable than say 12+ hours of being seriously out there on LSD.

I think the power of DMT just surpasses all the other psychedelics so comprehensively that it is only to be expected that people may regard their experiences on it as indicative of some greater reality.My personal opinion is that ALL consciousness-altering substances have elements which can be beneficial.Ultimately they all re-set the filter our brains have on reality in different fashions allowing the astute user to gain benefits from each of them.

Problems are more likely to arise when the user of any drug plays with it too much.The hazards are different with the different drugs and the most significant risk with the psychedelics is psychological- ranging from problems continuing with the mundane nature of life to frank psychosis.My own experiences, particularly with dissociatives, have 'shown' me that hyperspace is not the be-all and end-all-it its is simply a facet of the whole which is ultimately unknowable to us mere mortals.Ketamine taken IM in my opinion gives a view on the nature of things which surpasses that given by DMT, but when the morning comes theres still the job to go to,bills to pay etc etc.

All drugs when used correctly can be beneficial and this in my opinion includes stuff like opiates BUT the problem here is that playtime with these ends quicker and more tragically then most other compounds.But nevertheless there is still benefits to be had IF USED CORRECTLY.

I also believe that the use of drugs can never produce a Utopia on earth because the vagaries of human nature are always in the mix.Drugs can improve individuals but there is a fine line between gaining the benefits and ending up a casualty.

I would suggest that you have only had the merest taste of DMT and you may be premature in your conclusions at this time.I feel that if you over-do it with this substance your initial ideas may well be confirmed but I honestly believe there is much you have to learn about it before wisely choosing to move on to other ways of self-exploration.In the final analysis the psychedelics can give one a view of something bigger out there but not one of us has found the answers which cannot be contested.
 
Just wanted to add, since I'm new here, that my approach to psychadelics is probably different from that of the majority of folks here. I really enjoy sub-breakthrough doses. I feel that I can learn a lot even from low doses. Hyperspace is beyond my abilities. To me there's nothing like mountain biking up in the hills here on a medium dose of shrooms. Just yesterday I had a very memorable time on a medium dose of copelandia cyanescens. At one point while I was just chilling on top of a mountain, looking at the clouds, I figured out a new way to render 3d clouds for work, something I'd never thought of before. 8)
 
Off the top of my head, I can think of three scenarios (there are probably many more) where absurdity can be used to effectuate an end:

1. Reinforcement of memory: This is a device well-known in mnemonics - Basically the more absurd you make an association with something that you desire to remember, the easier it becomes to recall. How this may apply here is anyone's guess.

2. Sleight of hand: This is a commonly understood technique that keeps you distracted from what is REALLY going on.

3. To engender hopelessness and despair: As Sarte puts it, if ultimately our universe is an existentially meaningless one (absurd), then suicide begins to look less unsavory as an option (personally, it is never an option, but many people might feel this way)

My issue here is quite fundamental.

I remain skeptical of the DMT experience and the entities that are encountered in it. Especially when I hear reports from people who have said that through their journey there remains an undercurrent of feeling as if these entities could turn at any time. I remain especially skeptical when I read of the scenarios where the experiencer is offered a "bauble/hyperdimensional cube" from an entity in exchange for their soul???

One thing that I have learned from my own DMT experiences is that the entire universe is fractal; every part reflects the whole. I would imagine that a universal ethic could exist and be agreed upon by any sentient, intelligent, rational, GOOD, and reciprocating entity.

If I consider how I, in all my puny limitedness, might seek to engage another entity of a differing order of magnitude than my own (for instance, if I came across a deer in the woods and desired to connect with it), i might do so in a way somewhat like this:

"Hello, dear friend. I come to you in peace and respect (no prodding and poking). I intend you no harm. I come to you in the name of First Father, the progenitor of us all. I approach you with the desire to connect and communicate (approaching gently and softly and open-handedly). Again, to reassure you, I intend you no harm but only goodness. I wish to ally our energies in order to enter into a shared interspecies communion, that we might collaborate in joining our energies together for the successful proliferation of life and for the welfare of the whole created order.

Especially I am curious to know you more intimately, my dear brother. I see my reflection when I look at you. I hope you can feel something of the same when you look at me. Come and let us relax into the joy of our shared being- in love, gratitude, and deep respect."

Now if I, in all my limitation, have the basic awareness to approach a potentially terrified and certainly nervous being with a view to put them at ease holding a pure, noble, and true intention, then I would expect the same from beings who are an order of magnitude higher than myself.

This remains for me a conundrum, one which I cannot resolve. I am looking forward to the help of you, my dear friends at the Nexus.
 
Well, you say you’ve only had one breakthrough. I don’t think that’s enough to come to any conclusions.

I’ve had hundreds of breakthroughs, and others have had many more than that.

One thing I can say is that maybe 5% of my breakthroughs are of a different nature. Those are the breakthroughs where I am able to say, “THIS is why I keep coming back.” Those are the breakthroughs where the nature of the greater reality becomes self-evident.

Also, on one occasion, I had a breakthrough unlike any other. It was different in every respect (it turned out to be a near-death experience). That’s one experience out of 200+.

There is a depth of experience that you simply cannot begin to imagine, having had only one breakthrough. I don’t know where it ends, or if it ends, but the first breakthrough is just a beginning.

You seem to think that the goal of DMT use is to change how you live your life in this reality. I’m not sure any more if that’s the case.
 
Thank you all for your thoughts.

Just to make it clear, I'm not expressing the opinion that one time in hyperspace is enough and challenging others because of this. My experience just somehow left me with the feeling that all that would happen if I do it again is that I would go back to that same space and basically encounter either the same weirdness or the same lessons that I have on my 3 DMT experiences (all vaped) and other psychedelic use (mushrooms, K). So I'm happy to hear that there is more to it, and it puts my mind at rest that it's not just about lessons on how to live in this life (indeed, I feel that I have gained all my appliable insights from the non-breakthrough doses/parts of the DMT experience). Having said that, I wonder what our journeys in hyperspace are then in fact about. If it's an exchange, a meeting of souls, a visitation, there must be more to it than just "hanging out" - are our interactions with the entities all innocent?

Perhaps the analogy with the deer is apt. After all, I'd be pretty excited to just be around a deer and would try to put it at rest. I wouldn't think about teaching it things, except maybe simple advice such as keep away from hunters. After all I don't really know what deers feel/think/live like and it may be that the entities have a similar relationship to us rather than an all-knowing one. I also remember playing with little chicks and ducklings on my grandparents farm when I was younger, I had no bad intentions but I still chased and prodded them. This could be seen as analogous to some 'malicious' entities when they find us, either they want to put us at ease or they're excited and want to play but we're understandably terrified. All this to me adds to the absurdity of it all, really. If it's just about saying hi and getting a new perspective then smoking DMT is analogous to any other experience one could do to broaden the range of experiences/hobbies one has partaken in.

But if it IS about experiencing ultimate reality then I'm not sure how a 100% different perspective like this encompasses it - being 100% different means that it is 100% not including this reality. How can it then be fractal? In what way do I have to zoom in or out to get to hyperspace? Fractal not only in size but in dimensions? But then I'm not sure how every part can be seen to reflect the whole if the parts are on different planes/frequencies.

Divineeyes: Yes I feel this feeling of absurdity is kind of stopping me from concentrating on my revision and day to day life, yet it's made me terrified of death at the same time. If death is going into eternity, and the only experience I have of eternity is hyperspace, I'm really not sure if I want to be stuck there for ACTUAL eternity.

Gibran, can you explain a bit more about how the 5% of experiences are different and what kind of insights you have gained from both the 95% and the 5%?

And I'm still interested in hearing about the nature of your visions, ie if they're cartoon like like mine!
 
Hello luciapath, welcome to the Nexus! :)

Let me comment on a few things...

As to why one might use psychedelics, at least for me there's a dynamic list of reasons. Introspection and self-analysis, fun, existential exploration, aesthetic and synaesthetic pleasure, seeing the view from a different perspective, musical inspiration, etc. The psychedelic experience is as varied as life itself.

I also generally prefer oral dmt (whether that is ayahuasca or pharma), but there is a certain appeal about vaporized DMT, the potentiated, immediate, impossible-to-deny impossible-to-explain absurdity, and this tickles my deepest 'curiosity gland', making me occasionaly return to that space and bathe in the endless fountain of mistery. There are always more questions than answers for me, but I dont mind it.

I think smoked DMT and psychedelics in general should be always balanced with integration. Its just as important to 'let go' and be able to go far in the experience, as it is to come back and put everything in practice in daily life, being self-critical and struggling to become a better person.

The frequency varies, sometimes it may be a few times in a session or a couple of months of weekly use, and then I might pass months and months or even years without vaporizing it. As long as one keeps rooted in reality when necessary, integrates, is healthy, tries to be good to others, fulfills his responsibilities, then I think one has all the right in the world to do what he wants and should follow nobody but his conscience to decide when or when not to use these substances.

As for the cartoonish aspect, yeah its quite often there in DMT trips for me, this circus/jester feeling... There's a lot more than this too! Like gilbran said, once you had many trips you see that there are some that are just completely different.
 
Luciapath said:
...Gibran, can you explain a bit more about how the 5% of experiences are different and what kind of insights you have gained from both the 95% and the 5%?

And I'm still interested in hearing about the nature of your visions, ie if they're cartoon like like mine!
Click to expand...
It’s good to see that you’re giving serious thought to your experiences.

I’ll try to answer your question, but it’s very hard (at least for me) to put into words. And remember, these are my experiences. Although there are common elements to all of our DMT experiences, we each experience them through our unique perspective.

First, these special experiences seem much more “immersive”. A stronger than usual sense of being fully there. There is often debate about whether what we see while under the influence of DMT is real. If all of my experiences were like the 95%, then I’d answer “maybe” to the question “Is it real?”. But that 5% has convinced me in a deep and very profound way that there is an immaterial realm beyond our ordinary understanding.

Second, there are things that I see and participate in that I cannot bring back, and I know, as I am experiencing them, that I cannot bring them back. I am “told” this during the experience, and it is strange to look around and be fully aware of what I see, yet to know that when the experience is over I will have no memory of what I see. (I remember my thoughts and feelings, but not what I see and do.)

It’s an “agreement” that is made – “they” allow me to see and experience things that are ordinarily off-limits to living human beings, but I must accept the memory erasure. I always accept the agreement.

Third, there is a level of participation that exceeds that of other experiences. In many “ordinary” experiences (are any ordinary?) I see things and seem to be guided as if on a tour. But in these rarer experiences, I actively participate in what I can only call “sacred rituals”.

Finally, there is almost always a deep spiritual element to these rarer experiences. There is a connection to my “higher self” and an awareness that there is a purpose to the experiences that I cannot know.

What insights have I gained? There is so much we don’t know and can’t know! But I now know that there is an eternal immaterial realm. I know that this immaterial realm is our true home, and that one day we will all return there.

To answer the cartoon question – nope, never have cartoon-type visuals.
 
hat is the point of meditating now if I've already experienced the endpoint?

-i think that meditating aids you in a lot of things. I dont think that hyperspace is the endpoint of meditation. I think the end point is gaining complete control of your mind so that you may use it however you please.

Any further exploration would just be an escape from applying the lessons I already know.

- i feel like this too sometimes but you have to remember that you cannot possibly devote 100% of your energy towards compassion all the time.

even though its highly unlikely that you do and i definitely do not. so if you are not 100% compassionate consider the tripping another part of what you do when you are not applying the lessons. Just because when you are in school learning about helping (whatever) you are not helping (whatever) does not mean that going to school is bad....
 
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